Last time I did an update, I promised the post on hoovering (a very common tactic in the world of narcissism), and yet, it is still not published. I thought other posts I was writing were quite a bit more important and compelling, and that is one reason it got pushed to the "back burner", and the other reason was because I thought it needed the kind of links that my most recent posts have to legitimize the claims I write about.
So I don't think I need to say "publishing a post soon" kinds of statements since I didn't follow through the last time. The basics that people write about when it comes to narcissism I have already written about with the exception of the isolation tactic, arrogance, grandiosity and haughtiness in narcissism, heightened envy and jealousy in narcissists, the shame-rage spiral, bread-crumbing, intermittent reinforcement, some more punishments narcissists are highly likely to use to get their own way, and of course, hoovering.
That's not a lot to finish and those posts are primarily done except links and some graphics. So why can't I just "push through" and publish them?
At the moment I'm way more interested in what family scapegoats have in common (they have a lot in common with one another as it turns out), healing strategies for scapegoats, and what PTSD does to the brain and body, why dissociation can become a big problem for scapegoats and why that can impede healing and human connection even though it is an involuntary trauma response, and "the no contact" trend of Generation Z with their parents.
I'm also busy writing about other issues that I think are more compelling for me to cover in terms of the subject of narcissism: the psychology of their sycophants, common prejudices in narcissists and sycophants, the communication and filtering styles of narcissists, and what to do about the kinds of destructions narcissists wreak on society and on younger generations (is there hope for assimilation, or is the best strategy always "no contact" to protect society and other generations from destruction)?
And then there is the subject of "forgiveness" when it comes to narcissists and their destructions - it happens sometimes even without pressure from others or even pressure from within. It can take some survivors by surprise even. So what is behind that?
And that's why I haven't published these more common traits of narcissism. You can also read them anywhere, on just about any blog on narcissism.
But first some compelling news:
PRESENT STUDIES IN COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY LABS
ON SCAPEGOATS
AND HOPEFUL METHODOLOGIES FOR HEALING
There are some remarkable studies being performed in universities and college labs to get an understanding of how family scapegoats are being impacted in childhood. These studies are being run by all kinds of specialists in the medical field including neurologists, immunologists, rheumotologists, lymphologists, cardovascular specialists, and so many others. Naturally psychiatrists, psychologists and trauma therapists are leading these experiments.
What they are finding is that family scapegoats are showing that their autonomic nervous systems are being much more compromised (and destroyed) than originally considered by the mental health community and physicians. While it may not surprise any adult scapegoat, it surprised doctors how impacted these children were.
As of the present day, most adult scapegoats and some child scapegoats are being treated with healing modalities meant for a broad spectrum of traumas from war, accidents, all kinds of child abuse, kidnapping, rape, trafficking, slavery, extreme forms of incarceration, and so on. This is such an array of types of trauma, and unfortunately, using the same forms of treatment for one form of trauma does not necessarily work for another form of trauma in all cases. For now, all of these forms of trauma get the same kinds of therapies.
In America PTSD and CPTSD are still being lumped together as "PTSD" even though the chronic form (CPTSD) shows some dramatic differences from a one-time traumatic event (usually reserved for PTSD). European nations, in contrast with the U.S.A., recognize PTSD and CPTSD as distinct diagnoses formalized by The World Health Organization. Apparently the U.S.A. can't formalize it because too many physicians see it as a severe subset rather than a separate diagnosis.
I'm not sure if that has been bungling research on child abuse victims or not. It's remarkable that studies weren't taking place on what child abuse does to all parts of the phyical body of child victims until recent times. There have been a lot of studies about what it does to a child psychologically, and to the brains of children. Then what it did to some of the major organs followed in the 1990s, and very recent studies have unveiled what it does to the immune system.
Certainly Bessel van der Kolk, the leading psychiatrist on trauma, has found that trauma affects the entire body, and his team of trauma experts keep coming out with more and more studies about what trauma does to various parts of the body, even in the first seconds a traumatic event occurs, so those discoveries led other teams to study what has not been discovered yet, even going into specific types of traumatic events, and in this case, scapegoating children.
Anyway, this research is taking place in labs now. And what is more, some studies are not just being done on any child abuse victims; they are being done specifically on scapegoats and for scapegoats, the ones who endure systematic abuse from a parent or caretaker on a regular basis while growing up, and sometimes from their entire family.
What they are finding is that family scapegoats are showing that their autonomic nervous systems are being much more compromised (and destroyed) than originally considered by the mental health community and physicians. While it may not surprise any adult scapegoat, it surprised doctors how impacted these children were.
As of the present day, most adult scapegoats and some child scapegoats are being treated with healing modalities meant for a broad spectrum of traumas from war, accidents, all kinds of child abuse, kidnapping, rape, trafficking, slavery, extreme forms of incarceration, and so on. This is such an array of types of trauma, and unfortunately, using the same forms of treatment for one form of trauma does not necessarily work for another form of trauma in all cases. For now, all of these forms of trauma get the same kinds of therapies.
In America PTSD and CPTSD are still being lumped together as "PTSD" even though the chronic form (CPTSD) shows some dramatic differences from a one-time traumatic event (usually reserved for PTSD). European nations, in contrast with the U.S.A., recognize PTSD and CPTSD as distinct diagnoses formalized by The World Health Organization. Apparently the U.S.A. can't formalize it because too many physicians see it as a severe subset rather than a separate diagnosis.
I'm not sure if that has been bungling research on child abuse victims or not. It's remarkable that studies weren't taking place on what child abuse does to all parts of the phyical body of child victims until recent times. There have been a lot of studies about what it does to a child psychologically, and to the brains of children. Then what it did to some of the major organs followed in the 1990s, and very recent studies have unveiled what it does to the immune system.
Certainly Bessel van der Kolk, the leading psychiatrist on trauma, has found that trauma affects the entire body, and his team of trauma experts keep coming out with more and more studies about what trauma does to various parts of the body, even in the first seconds a traumatic event occurs, so those discoveries led other teams to study what has not been discovered yet, even going into specific types of traumatic events, and in this case, scapegoating children.
Anyway, this research is taking place in labs now. And what is more, some studies are not just being done on any child abuse victims; they are being done specifically on scapegoats and for scapegoats, the ones who endure systematic abuse from a parent or caretaker on a regular basis while growing up, and sometimes from their entire family.
There are obviously standards that have to be reached to be considered "a scapegoat" of your parent and family, and a lot of those standards come from Rebecca Mandeville's book, "Rejected, Blamed and Shamed". It is a book meant for therapists to help them diagnose whether an adult has the experiences and symptoms that would define them as a "family scapegoat", and for child abuse survivors to help them decipher whether they are a scapegoat or not, and then legitimize that they've been scapegoated by their family of origin if they can say "yes" to the questionnaire in the book.
I have scoured enough child abuse forums to know that EMDR, CBT, CPT, PE, Somatic exercises and pharmeceuticals, and even controversial therapies like CBD, low dose LSD, Ketamine, and Ibogaine do not work for all scapegoats, the healing methods used for people who have been traumatized. When the trauma is too pervasive, too deep, or too intense during childhood, it seems that sometimes nothing works.
Case inpoint: I met a woman on-line. Her case was this: 2 parents with all of the symptoms and traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and an older brother who sexually abused her throughout her childhood. She was dissociating a lot during episodes with her family and ended up with Dissociative Identity Disorder (what used to be called "Multiple Personality Disorder" - which according to a team studying this disorder at Harvard these days, is not so uncommon after all - more about this in later posts, I hope).
She was scapegoated by her family.
Her family took her brother's side, and at 20, she was rejected by her nuclear family. Another family member that was not part of the nuclear family put up money for her to get therapy. It was during therapy that she decided she wanted to be a therapist herself, so she took out loans to get a degree in trauma therapy, and learned the techniques of EMDR and some of the other ones I've mentioned.
Anyway, after around thirty years of going to therapy and administering therapy to others, she felt that she could never heal, that no therapies had worked on her, that she would always feel broken and dealing with amnesia, severe depression, and splitting between alters, and short-changing her patients because she couldn't heal herself. Also, organizing anything in her life was extremely difficult. She didn't remember where she put things (because of the alters), and sometimes, even if rarely, displaced her patients' folders. She found that one of her alters had contacted her family even, and her older brother who had abused her for all of those years, which she experienced as a horror in terms of her main alters, and in terms of advising her patients to limit or break with their abusers for the duration of trauma therapy.
Anyway, she said she found she couldn't live with herself doing these things to "f" up her life. She said she was in chronic emotional pain all of the time. The on-going hypervigilence she found herself in when "betraying myself", and the alters taking charge of the betrayals, she said she couldn't live through any more of it. "I can't even trust myself! Most people don't have to worry about that, but when you have alters, self betrayal is a big problem! And I can't go back to my family to take a break, or get help like other people can because they are so much worse than the worst of my alters!"
There is nothing I could say to her to get her re-think this decision because she had tried everything she could to heal. Every therapy had already been tried. And then I never heard from her again.
What a tragic story!
She had been brought up in a time when Child Protective Services, established in 1974, could be functionally ineffective, especially in its earliest days. Between 1962 through 1967, the mental health establishment had discovered that child abuse was producing some unacceptable outcomes for society and for families to the point where there needed to be a nationwide way to protect children. Here is the Google AI version of that (partial, through the same link, and copied in blue):
The mental health establishment concluded that child abuse requires protective orders because overwhelming empirical evidence shows childhood maltreatment causes long-lasting psychiatric, physical, and developmental damage, often resulting in severe adult mental disorders and high mortality risks. Protective orders are necessary to immediately interrupt violent cycles, prevent further trauma, and offer legal safe boundaries.
The article also discusses emotional abuse and neglect.
Anyway, not to get off-topic too much, it is clear that for the worst cases of scapegoating, there is nowhere to turn. While abusers are often satisfied with seeing a "freeze response" from their victims because it's not challenging them and no one is running away from them, and freezing can look like "submitting" or "capitulating" (even with a devastated facial expression on the victim), it is doing untold damage to the victim. This is where an integrated, authentic budding personality with preferences, likes, dislikes, interests and opinions, goes to die. The freeze response is also where dissociation begins to happen, and where the compartmentalization of events, even internal ones, begin to splinter.
With the new therapies being invented for the branch of trauma survivors one would call "family scapegoats", some of these issues are being addressed, and they are finding preliminary results to be "extremely effective".
Wow, some hope! That's great!
However, some unscrupulous therapists who have been privy to the preliminary results, are going out and saying they have the ability "to heal scapegoats and the particular kinds of trauma they have". So, I received a warning a couple of days ago that the results have not been officially concluded and the study is incomplete, and not to trust any therapist who claims they can heal the kind of trauma that scapegoats have. I guess there are the unscrupulous in every profession.
I have no idea what is in store, but I would think one of the more stubborn aspects of trauma to treat are the folks who dissociate. Again, it's involuntary, so how did they solve it, if they solved it? I'm eager to find out.
There is also something in the works in the labeling, something slightly different than the P.T.S.D. letters, but which have a lot in common with P.T.S.D. lettering too, which again would be used to diagnose scapegoats in particular, so that the scapegoat's medical team is more sensitive to their needs and requirements, and are offering more effective ways to deal with their particular traumas, than say, someone who has been in a car crash.
As with CPTSD, there are likenesses in common with PTSD, but also some differences.
For me, this is an interesting period to be alive, and I hope I see what is in store.
In the meantime, if you want to explore trauma therapies that are being used now, for the most part they are really effective for the bulk of trauma survivors.
Here are some books you may want to check out too:
"The Body Keeps the Score" - by Bessel ver der Kolk
- available on Amazon
"Rejected, Shamed and Blamed" - by Rebecca C. Mandeville
- available on Amazon
"Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving: A GUIDE AND MAP FOR RECOVERING FROM CHILDHOOD TRAUMA" - by Pete Walker
- available on Amazon
"Growing Up as the Scapegoat to a Narcissistic Parent: A Guide to Healing" - by Jay Reid (Amazon)
"How Scapegoats Can Heal from Narcissistic Abuse: 3 Steps Towards Compassion, Protection & Freedom" - by Jay Reid (Amazon)
And if you want to know some of why women are scapegoated more than men, this is a book I highly recommend:
The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help (How to End Domestic Violence, Mental and Emotional Abuse, and Sexual Harassment) - by Jackson Katz (Amazon)
"Growing Up as the Scapegoat to a Narcissistic Parent: A Guide to Healing" - by Jay Reid (Amazon)
"How Scapegoats Can Heal from Narcissistic Abuse: 3 Steps Towards Compassion, Protection & Freedom" - by Jay Reid (Amazon)
And if you want to know some of why women are scapegoated more than men, this is a book I highly recommend:
The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help (How to End Domestic Violence, Mental and Emotional Abuse, and Sexual Harassment) - by Jackson Katz (Amazon)
ONE OF PEEP'S BLOG POSTS
(and searching for what ails you to see if it might have something to do with PTSD)
(and searching for what ails you to see if it might have something to do with PTSD)
Peep, as I call her, runs the blog, Five Hundred Pound Peeps as an anonymous writer. She writes on a number of subjects, including posts about and for ACONs, lymphedema and lipedema (which can often be mistaken for obesity), poverty from the status of an ACON and on disability, politics and the economic challenges for the younger generations.
Anyway, she wrote this post on a lot of her health conditions, and I responded.
I thought I'd share with you the response so that if you have any of these medical issues yourself, and you are also an ACON, you may be able to attribute it to PTSD (copied here in green):
Anyway, she wrote this post on a lot of her health conditions, and I responded.
I thought I'd share with you the response so that if you have any of these medical issues yourself, and you are also an ACON, you may be able to attribute it to PTSD (copied here in green):
We have talked about this before, but PTSD can cause significant weight gain:
There is a strong link between PTSD and Lupus:
PTSD can significantly increase the risk of getting Type 2 diabetes:
PTSD can significantly increase the risk of getting allergies:
"physical or emotional trauma can act as a trigger for the onset or worsening of lipedema in genetically predisposed individuals.":
PTSD can significantly damage the endocrine system:
Being an ACON causes so much undue stress, as does poverty.
The point here is that PTSD (or CPTSD - the disorder generally relegated to scapegoats) often is going to impact the body in some adverse way.
If you are a survivor of child abuse, you can look up what ails you in the same way I did for Peep and see if there are any correlations with the PTSD or CPTSD that you are experiencing. Since the Google search is American, using the word PTSD in its search is likely to get you better results for your questions because American psychiatrists still have not recognized CPTSD as "different" from PTSD (compared to European countries as I wrote at the beginning of this post).
If you are a survivor of child abuse, you can look up what ails you in the same way I did for Peep and see if there are any correlations with the PTSD or CPTSD that you are experiencing. Since the Google search is American, using the word PTSD in its search is likely to get you better results for your questions because American psychiatrists still have not recognized CPTSD as "different" from PTSD (compared to European countries as I wrote at the beginning of this post).
ANOTHER OF PEEP'S BLOG POSTS
(a discussion about leaving 30 percent of Gen Zers out of their parents' wills and trusts)
(a discussion about leaving 30 percent of Gen Zers out of their parents' wills and trusts)
Peep likes to see what is going on with parents who have children they are estranged from.
Apparently the sites she sees are full of wrath, with statements like: "How dare our children 'go no contact!' Even if it comes from a therapist, it's a bad way to treat those who have sacrificed their lives to bring up these entitled brats! Such ungrateful children! Leave them out of your Wills and give the money to charity! Teach them a lesson! Get a Trust because if you leave a Will, these kids are so selfish, they will contest it!"
Thirty percent of Gen Zers are estranged from a parent, so a lot of charities will become absolutely flooded with money apparently.
I haven't seen these boards on social media myself, nor do I want to. I have researched enough about narcissism to not be surprised by any of this. However, they do reveal these underlying issues:
* "Teach a lesson that will hurt them." - never works to establish or re-establish a bond, and it does not teach conflict resolution.
* "Brats!" - an insult generally reserved for underage children.
* "Ungrateful" - a "give-away" word that you may be dealing with a narcissist. It's also a cheap way not to have to think about what a child is going through. Narcissists use this phrase on children too much in forums (and it's about the only thing they have to say about their children), and because of that, it is eye-rolling. There is only so many punishments and pain a child will endure before running away. The phrase teaches nothing of value except that it puts all responsibility and blame on the child for the rift and none on the parent.
* Narcissists will do the bare minimum in raising their children.
Narcissists are generally more interested in status and money than their children.
Narcissistic mothers are more likely to work outside the home, looking for high status jobs, than staying home to raise children.
So narcissistic mothers are more likely to be working outside the home.
I'm not inferring anything here, but Peep talks about her days of growing up as a "latch-key kid". In Peep's case, she talks about her generation being more "latch-key"-relegated than past generations. Apparently they were kids who spent more time bringing up themselves than being in the company of their parents.
She was also a baby-sitter and dinner planner and preparer at nine years old when her parents were out working. Some "sacrifice" is expected when raising kids, and there is also sacrifice on the kids part to run the household, especially when "latch-key".
Also latch-key kids who feel forced to provide for the family don't feel as valued as children whose parents sacrificed their "time" to be with their kids. So what kid wants to be with a parent who doesn't value them? And devaluation of children is, again, a narcissistic trait.
And frankly, all of the endless copy-cat narratives about this subject miss the mark of why children leave their parents. What kid actually thinks: "I am ungrateful, and that's why I left." "Ungrateful brat" is also self serving. And it doesn't get to the truth of any matter, not even close. It shuts out the real issues (a type of silencing of the child) and it shows a high propensity of these parents to control the narrative in such a way that it totally benefits them, with no benefit to the child, and totally wipes out any of their perspectives: "Vilify the child, never let them be right, ban all communication, batten down the hatches, and punish them all!!! Arggh!!"
If you read the adult children's versions, there are major differences. They are usually something along these lines:
"I tried my best with my parent(s). I'm not after their money, but when I have 60 - 80 hour work weeks with very little to show for it except a one bedroom apartment, I don't have time for the kinds of things they want from me. And frankly, what they want from me is time that is not productive, like arguing endlessly about a slight they feel, or telling me how to run my life, or gaslighting me, or insulting me, or demanding that I do things around their house. With the long hours I work? I can't survive the load I am dealing with and them at the same time. So I don't see my parents any more. Frankly, I feel traumatized by them, and that nothing matters to them except what they want. Something had to give."
So let's say the government can't take care of the enormous amount of Gen Zers when they are old. Perhaps the government will look to the incredibly wealthy charities these parents have endowed them with to provide financial assistance. It could happen - after the administrators try to give themselves a big fat raise to distribute the funds.
The cynicism is intentional.
Apparently the sites she sees are full of wrath, with statements like: "How dare our children 'go no contact!' Even if it comes from a therapist, it's a bad way to treat those who have sacrificed their lives to bring up these entitled brats! Such ungrateful children! Leave them out of your Wills and give the money to charity! Teach them a lesson! Get a Trust because if you leave a Will, these kids are so selfish, they will contest it!"
Thirty percent of Gen Zers are estranged from a parent, so a lot of charities will become absolutely flooded with money apparently.
I haven't seen these boards on social media myself, nor do I want to. I have researched enough about narcissism to not be surprised by any of this. However, they do reveal these underlying issues:
* "Teach a lesson that will hurt them." - never works to establish or re-establish a bond, and it does not teach conflict resolution.
* "Brats!" - an insult generally reserved for underage children.
* "Ungrateful" - a "give-away" word that you may be dealing with a narcissist. It's also a cheap way not to have to think about what a child is going through. Narcissists use this phrase on children too much in forums (and it's about the only thing they have to say about their children), and because of that, it is eye-rolling. There is only so many punishments and pain a child will endure before running away. The phrase teaches nothing of value except that it puts all responsibility and blame on the child for the rift and none on the parent.
* Narcissists will do the bare minimum in raising their children.
Narcissists are generally more interested in status and money than their children.
Narcissistic mothers are more likely to work outside the home, looking for high status jobs, than staying home to raise children.
So narcissistic mothers are more likely to be working outside the home.
I'm not inferring anything here, but Peep talks about her days of growing up as a "latch-key kid". In Peep's case, she talks about her generation being more "latch-key"-relegated than past generations. Apparently they were kids who spent more time bringing up themselves than being in the company of their parents.
She was also a baby-sitter and dinner planner and preparer at nine years old when her parents were out working. Some "sacrifice" is expected when raising kids, and there is also sacrifice on the kids part to run the household, especially when "latch-key".
Also latch-key kids who feel forced to provide for the family don't feel as valued as children whose parents sacrificed their "time" to be with their kids. So what kid wants to be with a parent who doesn't value them? And devaluation of children is, again, a narcissistic trait.
And frankly, all of the endless copy-cat narratives about this subject miss the mark of why children leave their parents. What kid actually thinks: "I am ungrateful, and that's why I left." "Ungrateful brat" is also self serving. And it doesn't get to the truth of any matter, not even close. It shuts out the real issues (a type of silencing of the child) and it shows a high propensity of these parents to control the narrative in such a way that it totally benefits them, with no benefit to the child, and totally wipes out any of their perspectives: "Vilify the child, never let them be right, ban all communication, batten down the hatches, and punish them all!!! Arggh!!"
If you read the adult children's versions, there are major differences. They are usually something along these lines:
"I tried my best with my parent(s). I'm not after their money, but when I have 60 - 80 hour work weeks with very little to show for it except a one bedroom apartment, I don't have time for the kinds of things they want from me. And frankly, what they want from me is time that is not productive, like arguing endlessly about a slight they feel, or telling me how to run my life, or gaslighting me, or insulting me, or demanding that I do things around their house. With the long hours I work? I can't survive the load I am dealing with and them at the same time. So I don't see my parents any more. Frankly, I feel traumatized by them, and that nothing matters to them except what they want. Something had to give."
So let's say the government can't take care of the enormous amount of Gen Zers when they are old. Perhaps the government will look to the incredibly wealthy charities these parents have endowed them with to provide financial assistance. It could happen - after the administrators try to give themselves a big fat raise to distribute the funds.
The cynicism is intentional.
A STORY:
WHEN HUMOR IS IGNORED
WHEN HUMOR IS IGNORED
This is about a couple, I will call Mr. and Mrs.
Mr. and Mrs. were/are both family scapegoats. They are '" happy couple", and love the peace and tranquility that they find with each other, and that they have built together.
One thing that Mr. finds is that he finds his wife not listening to him sometimes. He doesn't know why, and she doesn't exactly know why either except she says she "lives in her own head" a lot of the time, a common condition for scapegoats.
However, for important matters, the Mrs. decided that he should use the term, "Breaker, breaker!" just in case she's with the thoughts in her own mind rather than listening to him, to get her full attention. It works.
Anyway, they went for a walk one day and she again blanked out on him and what he was saying (meaning her own thoughts took over so that she didn't hear him - also a sign of dissociation).
He was in a joking, jolly mood, and talking about how dogs were going to "log on" to the internet to get what they wanted, and a whole story ensued with a lot of quips and double entendres.
His wife was nodding her head in agreement to these wild tales, but she had only heard the part where dogs were going to "log on".
After he was done, he asked her, "Do you agree with me on that?"
She answered "Yes."
He asked her again, "Oh, no! Do you actually agree with me?"
She answered, "Yes, I totally agree with you. I already said 'yes'."
He asked, "What is going on with you? You got lost in your own thoughts again, didn't you?"
She answered, "Yes, I'm sorry. I did. I'm embarassed and didn't want to admit it."
He asked, "Why does this keep happening? Am I boring you to such an extent that you switch off?"
She answered, "No. It's not you. It really isn't."
He said, "Well explain what's happening."
She answered, "I really don't know all of the answers, but I'm thinking it has to do with PTSD."
He said, "I have PTSD too, but I don't do that. So why do you think you're doing that and not me? And why are you blanking out on me? I love you and I'm devoted to you. There isn't a reason to blank out, is there?"
She answered, "No, absolutely not. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the abuse for you ended abruptly when you were thirteen years old. There were certainly gaps of better times for me, but the on-going trajectory was they wanted me hurt, and tethered to the family. That's all I can think of as to the reason why this is different for you than it is for me."
He said, "But where did you go while I was telling all of these jokes?"
She answered, "I noticed my thoughts got really loud right after you started talking about the dogs logging on to the internet."
He said, "You mean intrusive thoughts? Like hypervigilent experiences of worrying about whether your family still wants to attack you?"
She answered, "Nothing like that. I wasn't thinking about them at all. I have intrusive thoughts all of the time about all kinds of things, like how I'm going to tackle a room in our house in terms of organizing it and clearing it out in some sort of perfectly satisfying way that it won't ever get that messy again."
He said, "But why are you blanking out when I'm joking with you? Why would joking be scary for you?"
She answered, "I'm not afraid of the joking, at least I don't think I am. I'm not exactly sure why. Let me think about this for awhile."
When she thought about it for awhile, she said, "My mother used to lie to me a lot, and gaslight me, and try to convince me that everything was my fault. I know I blanked out on her a lot during those times. I'm pretty sure that she decided I was crazy based on these episodes, because for all I know, I might have even said 'I believe you' as an auto-pilot response, just like I did with you, because not to believe her lies was to invite her wrath. So telling a wild tale about dogs being on the internet might have been a trigger, and the mind then reacts as if it is a lie, and it's like "We have to flood the mind zone with something else!" I do know that my thoughts felt loud. I know it's involuntary to dissociate, so I don't know what to do about this. I'm okay most of the time, right?"
He answered, "You are, but you're doing it more than you maybe should. I just worry about you doing this with the wrong person, that's all. I'm still wondering why I don't do this if it is part of PTSD."
She said, "Well, the abuse was different. Your mother's abuse was violence, to whip you, and kick you and to make you bleed. She didn't gaslight you a lot, right?"
He said, "No, that wasn't in her lexicon, though she was convinced everything was my fault when my sister and I were at odds. However, I was never pressured to say everything was my fault. She assumed it was my fault without investigating anything because she had the attitude that boys hit girls, that boys tell girls what to do, that boys need to be taken down a notch or two. My sister was the main instigator of lying to appear innocent of something, so she wouldn't get punished and so that I would instead. She did the sinning and I would pay for it. So, in a way ---."
She said, "But you weren't constantly being lied to by your mother, right?"
He answered, "Not lying directly. She believed what my sister told her. I guess that's not really a lie. Anyway, I understand what you're saying, and it's good to know why there are differences between your version of PTSD and mine. I'll have to be sure to be in touch with you and what you're going through when I'm joking."
Mr. and Mrs. were/are both family scapegoats. They are '" happy couple", and love the peace and tranquility that they find with each other, and that they have built together.
One thing that Mr. finds is that he finds his wife not listening to him sometimes. He doesn't know why, and she doesn't exactly know why either except she says she "lives in her own head" a lot of the time, a common condition for scapegoats.
However, for important matters, the Mrs. decided that he should use the term, "Breaker, breaker!" just in case she's with the thoughts in her own mind rather than listening to him, to get her full attention. It works.
Anyway, they went for a walk one day and she again blanked out on him and what he was saying (meaning her own thoughts took over so that she didn't hear him - also a sign of dissociation).
He was in a joking, jolly mood, and talking about how dogs were going to "log on" to the internet to get what they wanted, and a whole story ensued with a lot of quips and double entendres.
His wife was nodding her head in agreement to these wild tales, but she had only heard the part where dogs were going to "log on".
After he was done, he asked her, "Do you agree with me on that?"
She answered "Yes."
He asked her again, "Oh, no! Do you actually agree with me?"
She answered, "Yes, I totally agree with you. I already said 'yes'."
He asked, "What is going on with you? You got lost in your own thoughts again, didn't you?"
She answered, "Yes, I'm sorry. I did. I'm embarassed and didn't want to admit it."
He asked, "Why does this keep happening? Am I boring you to such an extent that you switch off?"
She answered, "No. It's not you. It really isn't."
He said, "Well explain what's happening."
She answered, "I really don't know all of the answers, but I'm thinking it has to do with PTSD."
He said, "I have PTSD too, but I don't do that. So why do you think you're doing that and not me? And why are you blanking out on me? I love you and I'm devoted to you. There isn't a reason to blank out, is there?"
She answered, "No, absolutely not. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the abuse for you ended abruptly when you were thirteen years old. There were certainly gaps of better times for me, but the on-going trajectory was they wanted me hurt, and tethered to the family. That's all I can think of as to the reason why this is different for you than it is for me."
He said, "But where did you go while I was telling all of these jokes?"
She answered, "I noticed my thoughts got really loud right after you started talking about the dogs logging on to the internet."
He said, "You mean intrusive thoughts? Like hypervigilent experiences of worrying about whether your family still wants to attack you?"
She answered, "Nothing like that. I wasn't thinking about them at all. I have intrusive thoughts all of the time about all kinds of things, like how I'm going to tackle a room in our house in terms of organizing it and clearing it out in some sort of perfectly satisfying way that it won't ever get that messy again."
He said, "But why are you blanking out when I'm joking with you? Why would joking be scary for you?"
She answered, "I'm not afraid of the joking, at least I don't think I am. I'm not exactly sure why. Let me think about this for awhile."
When she thought about it for awhile, she said, "My mother used to lie to me a lot, and gaslight me, and try to convince me that everything was my fault. I know I blanked out on her a lot during those times. I'm pretty sure that she decided I was crazy based on these episodes, because for all I know, I might have even said 'I believe you' as an auto-pilot response, just like I did with you, because not to believe her lies was to invite her wrath. So telling a wild tale about dogs being on the internet might have been a trigger, and the mind then reacts as if it is a lie, and it's like "We have to flood the mind zone with something else!" I do know that my thoughts felt loud. I know it's involuntary to dissociate, so I don't know what to do about this. I'm okay most of the time, right?"
He answered, "You are, but you're doing it more than you maybe should. I just worry about you doing this with the wrong person, that's all. I'm still wondering why I don't do this if it is part of PTSD."
She said, "Well, the abuse was different. Your mother's abuse was violence, to whip you, and kick you and to make you bleed. She didn't gaslight you a lot, right?"
He said, "No, that wasn't in her lexicon, though she was convinced everything was my fault when my sister and I were at odds. However, I was never pressured to say everything was my fault. She assumed it was my fault without investigating anything because she had the attitude that boys hit girls, that boys tell girls what to do, that boys need to be taken down a notch or two. My sister was the main instigator of lying to appear innocent of something, so she wouldn't get punished and so that I would instead. She did the sinning and I would pay for it. So, in a way ---."
She said, "But you weren't constantly being lied to by your mother, right?"
He answered, "Not lying directly. She believed what my sister told her. I guess that's not really a lie. Anyway, I understand what you're saying, and it's good to know why there are differences between your version of PTSD and mine. I'll have to be sure to be in touch with you and what you're going through when I'm joking."
Perhaps you can see that the differences matter in terms of treatment for PTSD.
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