What is New?

WHAT IS NEWEST ON THIS BLOG?
October 20 New Post: When Narcissists Pit Children Against Each Other to Win Their Affection, This is What It is Largely About
September 26 New Post: Dealing with Overwhelming Emotions From Narcissistic Abuse, an Introduction. Comes With a Discussion on Dysregulated Emotions.
August 21 New Post: Things Narcissists Get Wrong About Punishing Their Scapegoat Adult Children. Includes Some Discussion on Medical and Emotional Issues in Both.
August 11 New Post: If people don't want to hear what you have to say, it is normal for you to not want to hear what they have to say either. Comes with a discussion on narcissism
July 30 New Post: Is It Possible that Gen Z and Millennials Having to Work 2 - 3 Jobs Is Contributing to the Nationwide Trend of Estrangement With Parents in the USA?
July 21 New Post: Don't Narcissists Care About Hurting You?
July 14 (edited on 10/18/26) New Post: Reviews of "Narcissistic Rehab", "Narcissistic Detox" and "No More Narcissists" on Facebook
June 23 New Post: How I Came to Forgive the Narcissists in My Life (and it may not be what you think)
June 6 New Post: Why Do Sycophants Feel They Need to Follow Someone Who is So Unethical, Power Hungry, Cruel and Narcissistic? Comes with Personal Stories and a Deep Dive Into the Subject.
May 18 New Post: Family Obligation and the Scapegoat. Do You Owe Your Narcissistic Family Anything?
April 26 New Post: An Update: New Studies on Scapegoats of Narcissistic Families, Wills and Narcissistic Parents, Dissociation, and Some Other Topics of Note
April 6 New Post: Why Scapegoats of Narcissistic Families Are Unlikely To Turn Into Sycophants. Part II.
March 29 New Post: A Domestic Violence Situation and Tale - from a well known Canadian Musician.
March 9 New Post: Why Scapegoats of Narcissistic Families Find It Impossible to Turn Themselves Into Sycophants. Comes with a Discussion on Largely Involuntary Independent Thinking, C-PTSD and Healing.
PERTINENT POST: ** Hurting or Punishing Others to Teach Them a Lesson - Does it Work?
PETITION: the first petition I have seen of its kind: Protection for Victims of Narcissistic Sociopath Abuse (such as the laws the UK has, and is being proposed for the USA): story here and here or sign the actual petition here
Note: After seeing my images on social media unattributed, I find it necessary to post some rules about sharing my images
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Showing posts with label holiday blues. Show all posts
Showing posts with label holiday blues. Show all posts

Friday, December 15, 2023

For Scapegoats of Narcissistic Parents: "I'm being invited back into my family after being estranged, and I'm pretty sure my parents are narcissists. Have they changed? Is this an apology or something else?"

BEFORE I GET TO THE POST
FIRST, AN ANNOUNCEMENT

Before I get to what this post is about, I have an announcement.

I will be continuing my series on shaming, as promised, but during the holidays, I thought that this post and the topic might be more appropriate.

The last three posts in the series on shaming to be published are:

* How Being Exposed to Shaming, Erroneous Blaming, Perspecticide, Gaslighting, and Most of All Fawning, Can Create Narcissism in a Child, Plus a Tease About a Personal Story - that's the title, and the writing is completed. It's a deep dive into this subject. A minor graphic artwork has yet to be made. So, you can look forward to that.  

* A cartoon/illustration that will make a post in the series more understandable

* And another deep dive post into the shame/rage spiral

So you can look forward to that.

Now for this post:

PRELUDE

I was inspired to write this post from a number of sources. The sources are listed below.

Around this time every year, many scapegoats of narcissistic parents are asking the question: "I was thrown out of my family, but after xxxx years, they are inviting me to spend Christmas with them again. What is going on? Have they decided I'm not to blame for all of the things they threw me out of the family for, or are they apologizing for what they have done to me, or is it for something else? And should I find out for sure?" - or some variation of that. 

And invariably people who have had the experience of going back say "Don't do it! It's a trap! This is what happened to me ..." and they tell some horrific tale of abuse by the parent, or a sibling (often siblings don't want you back - they believe it threatens the family resources they feel entitled to), or the whole family starts abusing again, often beginning with an extraordinary amount of chiding and cruel put-downs that they try to cloak as humor at your expense.  

While the tales have their differences, the fact that they were scapegoated again when they rejoined the family is the part of the tale that rarely seems to change, and in the overwhelming number of stories they are scapegoated worse than they were before, often over the most flimsy of reasons and excuses. 

WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN?

Narcissists grew up in homes with too much blaming, shaming and criticizing. To avoid being targeted, they put fault on others, usually a sibling. If it worked, then they kept using it. Eventually they came to use it most of the time, and lied to keep from being targeted. Sometimes they were targeted regardless. In that case they were more likely to end up as the vulnerable covert kind of narcissist who seems more shy and less grandiose on the surface. If they got away with it time and time again, then they are more likely to be the overt grandiose style of narcissist. 

Once they become narcissistic parents, they put children in roles, usually by the time they are toddlers. All of the roles exist to pay service to, and enhance, the narcissist's ego. Almost all children who grow up with authoritarian narcissistic parents have shattered egos, and some even have a shattered sense of self, even the favorite less abused child, and they all react differently to being gutted. It's understandable why a scapegoat would have a shattered sense of self, but why would less abused children have one too? And the answer is that they developed a false self in order not to be scapegoated themselves (in other words, they acted).

Narcissistic parents punish, reward, play head games, and manipulate to keep you in the role they have assigned you.

The scapegoat role exists because the parent refuses to be accountable for anything that might tarnish their ego and an image they want to present, or that causes delays in their ambition to reach the top in terms of power, control, domination, superiority and an authoritarian role in the family, at work, and in their friendship circles. All of this is pretty common, and self deceptive, because their style of bringing up a family rarely works (the rate of divorce, the rate of cheating, the rate of lying, and the rate of estrangement from children is very high, and they don't have what most families have: mutual support and having each other's back - all of that usually falls apart).
     They don't gain superiority at work either because what they do at work is usually triangulating, constant complaints to the boss about others in the workplace, indulging in false gossip, manipulating bosses and workers to believe in conspiracy theories about workers they feel they are in competition with, and blame-shifting (they most often get fired eventually because their tactics are found out, or they are caught bullying, or stealing from the business, or their work isn't up to par because they are spending too much time throwing co-workers under the bus instead of working).
     They also don't have "real friends" the way most of us have because they engage in lying to friends about what is really happening in their lives, and they are, again, in certain friendships only for ego reasons, or because they think they will gain some sort of superior standing by associating with certain people. 

Likewise, giving a child a scapegoat role is self deceptive too because the child isn't really at fault for everything the parent wants them to be at fault for, of course. They may not be at fault for anything, no matter how hard the parent tries to put the fault on them, no matter how much gaslighting they do, no matter how many punishments there are and how severe they try to make the punishments, no matter how much hatred the parent throws at the child, no matter how many smear campaigns they run trying to get others to believe they have an all-of-the-time, all-at-fault child, because the parent isn't dealing with reality, and it isn't moral or ethical. They are just replaying their childhood family script. Someone in the family usually knows what the truth is anyway, especially siblings, though because the parent is exerting so much pressure, power and threats, the other children may never say anything because they are trauma-bonded, too threatened by the specter of becoming a scapegoat themselves. In order to keep that threat away from themselves, they too are likely to attribute anything they do that is "bad" to the same scapegoat child the parent is using. So then it can become a situation of family bullying. 

Because children who are given the scapegoat role have a difficult time not defending themselves when falsely accused of events that either did not happen, or did not happen the way the parent thought they did, they are likely to react strongly to being falsely accused. Defending yourself when wronged is very normal, and under these kinds of circumstances it is especially normal. And if you are a scapegoat, you know the drill when you react to being falsely accused: they will call you crazy for reacting or defending yourself, or tell you in some way or another that your reactions aren't appropriate or normal - the gaslighting starts, and it never ends over fantasy events and fantasy faults they try to saddle you with.

They'll often spend their entire lives punishing you if they fail to correct your perceptions, wearing you down, until you give in. If you don't give in, you are punished again, or banished. If you give in to get the issue off your back and to stop the coercion, you are a martyr and a liar. Then you are likely to be rewarded for being a liar by your parent, which causes all kinds of issues, both with the parent (lying under duress), people in the family who know you are lying to make the narcissist happy, and who begin to lie for their own outcomes. While the parent may be happy that you lied, and tried to please them, your own physical, emotional and ethical well being takes a huge hit.  

Most scapegoats of narcissistic families are banished at one time or another, or several times from their family. In fact, I'd bet that most children and adult children who are banished or estranged from their parents, and who haven't been charged with a crime or crimes, and who aren't going to rehabs over and over again, are scapegoats of narcissistic families. Alcoholic families have their scapegoats too, but there isn't the same kind of on-going consistency of hatred, attacks and never-ending fault finding that there are towards scapegoats of narcissists. The hate will deepen and become full of conspiracy theories when narcissists practice scapegoating.  

Scapegoating also happens because narcissistic parents tend to be full of rage, jealousy and resentment, and they have to take it out on someone. Why? Because they aren't as high on the superiority ladder as they would like, ever, and I mean ever. They want to be so high to the point where everyone takes their orders and advice without question, all of the time, under any circumstance. It boils down to this: narcissistic parents want their children to cater to demands, all of the time, and children who aren't caterers to every demand aren't of much use to them, and the child gets the cold shoulder and is neglected.  

They don't look into why some children might not want to cater, or why those children might feel resistant to catering, or why a child might be defending themselves. The parent just gets into the habit of abusing, punishing and rejecting children who don't cater, which increases the chances that the child won't cater past childhood because the science on this says that the abuse, punishing and rejecting caused them to distrust the parent and the parent's intentions towards them. 

Scapegoating and benevolence are total opposites. And, as I've said before, awards are not benevolent actions in narcissistic families - they are a manipulation to keep a child in role, and are most often accompanied by punishments, coercion, hounding to submit, and other actions that don't work long term.

Do most narcissistic parents know the science on why scapegoat children don't become reliable sycophants? Not likely. Do they care about this fact? Not a bit unless they feel it might ruin their reputation, or create adverse outcomes in their illusory climb to superiority. 

They manipulate children to fit into these roles too. While some of it is based on personality, a lot of it is not. Usually they pick the more bootlicking child to be the golden child, and the more resistant-to-control to be the scapegoat, although family prejudices and proclivities play the biggest role in who gets scapegoated. Note: roles are usually decided when children are mere toddlers, so the personalities can change and the narcissist won't notice. They've decided who is who and what is what at a very early stage when the child is pre-verbal where the narcissistic parent feels entitled to fill in the gap as to what the child is feeling, when the personality is unsure and fluctuating, when day to day behaviors with toddlers are at their most unreliable in terms of being a predictor of future behavior. 

But don't narcissists change, and see the error of their ways in how they treat others? I mean, how can they justify this forever? Isn't that why I'm being asked to return to the family fold, and especially at Christmas, which is supposed to be a time of peace and making up?

Couldn't it ever be because they have seen the light?

CAN NARCISSISTIC PARENTS CHANGE,
AND WON'T THEY WANT TO STOP THE SCAPEGOATING AT SOME POINT,
KNOWING THAT IT ISN'T PARTICULARLY WORKING?

The answer to this question, is that narcissists can change, but do they really want to?

There are several roadblocks to change and the things I have mentioned are that they feel they need a scapegoat - to take the blame off of themselves, to give themselves the sense that they are never at fault for anything, to give themselves the vision of superiority, and to silence any and all members who aren't giving them that, and who are complaining that the narcissistic parent is cruel, unjust, abusive, and won't listen. If the parent has full blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder, they are highly likely to rage about any tiny thing that is not an ego stroke, where they feel they might be slighted or criticized, or where they might be called on to work out issues in the way most people do. They sit on their imaginary throne and wait for others to change and work out issues in their favor. When they don't get that, they rage. And rage, as we know, can turn into abuse and estrangement.

If they aren't willing to take any responsibility in their dealings with others, and they aren't sorry for scapegoating you and putting fault on you when it didn't belong there, then they probably only want you back to scapegoat you again, as there are many instances of shame they feel they cannot deal with without having a scapegoat to blame-shift it all on to.  

The reason why it might take years to invite you back is that they have probably been getting some satisfaction either by scapegoating someone else, or scapegoating you by proxy through false complaints, false gossip, telling others that you are "no good", smear campaigns, trying to bait you or "get your goat". If they scapegoat-by-proxy, most people around them get tired of this. Narcissists tend to be obsessed with hurting grown children they cannot control or manipulate, and people also grow more and more suspect when narcissists show they have contempt for their own child.

For most parents, raising children is about benevolence, self sacrifice, of insisting on the truth, of honest and sometimes herculean efforts to be emotionally regulated, of caring about their children's feelings and emotional health at all stages of life, of being fair even when they might be angry at a child, of being ethical and teaching ethics to their children. Narcissistic families don't raise children this way at all, quite the opposite, and they don't want to change the script because they feel they must scapegoat all of their parental failings on to one child, and sometimes their partner too.

"The reason I wasn't a good parent was because of my child" is the general message.  

So when they say goodbye to you and then decide they want you back for a big holiday event, if they can't take responsibility for what they have done, and they can't take responsibility for the way they have hurt you, is it worth it? Sometimes the invite is about trapping you, and abusing you until you give into them. Sometimes it might be an issue where they only have one child left, and they feel they can't risk losing that child too. And they know themselves enough to realize that disappointment is inevitable with that child too (children are actually not very good sources of narcissistic supply no matter what they do and how they act). Plus narcissists are never truly happy because they focus their attention on getting rewards predominantly. 

Disappointments can end up where they impulsively scapegoat, even when they don't want to. So both the parent and the only child left with a parent have a lot to lose without the original scapegoat present. However, the reasons behind wanting you back can be myriad. But more often than not (from reading forums from survivors) they try to get you back because they feel they need you in your old scapegoat role. 

Which is to say that they are not likely to change, even if they say they have changed, but there are also ways to tell if they have changed. I invite you to read on, as there are some definite signs to look for if you are wondering if they have truly changed, or if they are faking at changing: 

One of the most iron-clad ways that you can tell if they just want you in your old scapegoat role is if they show signs of contempt. The research on this originally came from John Gottman (another link), and many psychologists since him have run many experiments to discover that he was right.

I have also been doing some research on the psychology of hate, prejudice and resentment myself, and if a person is committed to hating and resenting certain individuals, or groups of people, and they have strong antagonistic traits like narcissism, they tend to get worse (spiraling down into more hatred and resentment) to the point where their hate becomes totally irrational, paranoid, and delusional. There is no more cognition applied in whether their stance on hating you is the right way for them to proceed. The hate becomes more visceral, automatic, impulsive and compulsive. 

In terms of hating their own child, there is also research that confirms that too much power can lead to more anti-social traits, including violence and corruption. Authoritarian types of power also block empathetic feelings  (another link, another link, another link and another link). This especially becomes an issue with narcissistic parents because they are obsessed with getting more power, control and domination no matter how old you are, no matter how many grandchildren you have, no matter how much power the narcissistic parent already has.

Children who have become full adults don't need to be controlled or dominated on any level. The expectation that the older you get you are expected to give more and more control and power over to your parent is absolutely crazy-making! 

On empathy ... They are already so low on empathy. Do we want to give them more power so that they can become even more unempathetic, and more sadistic (sadism being the opposite of empathy)?

Narcissists tend to be put out by children and adult children who need empathy too. Narcissists also tend to scoff at children and adults who have been traumatized. They are very much into blaming victims and viewing them as weak and incompetent (another link). One form of this kind of thinking goes like this: "If you had been smarter, you would never have been disabled when the bomb fell on your town. You would have realized that you should have left the area long before the war started." What this means is that narcissists bypass empathy by telling you what you should have done, and what they would have done, competing with you about how their strategic mind is superior to your reactive mind, making it into a diatribe of "the intelligence it takes not to get hurt."

When we need empathy, this is just cold hearted. 

Narcissism is also often comorbid with Paranoid Personality Disorder. But even when narcissists don't have the extra personality disorder, hatred and contempt can lead them to be paranoid, with a desire to hurt others or to get rid of them, to relieve themselves of the paranoia they feel, especially in regards to their image and the reputation they are trying to build. In addition, narcissists also look for reassuring signs that they have a right to hate and hurt others, and that is where prejudice comes in: based on sex, sexual orientation, race, cultural differences and political differences, mainly, and things like the disenfranchised, the poor, the minorities, the elderly, the over-weight and the disabled secondarily. In other words, they will tend to think, "See? I was always right to hate this person, and to treat them badly." 

This happens even when it is built on the flimsiest "evidence": their own beliefs, their thoughts about what other people's thoughts are, assumptions, what they want to believe, fantasy perspectives,  convenience (targeting "powerless" targets), cultural or biological differences, and so on. 

And one of the things we find that helps them come to the conclusion that they should be committed to hating, hurting and being contemptuous in such a strong way, if not a powerful way, is that they become as equally committed to criticism. Because they tend to only want to find fault outside themselves, they decide that being highly critical and judgmental is necessary to prop up their own insecure ego, to gain power and control, to gain prominence, to get attention.

For adult children of narcissists:

The surest way to tell if they haven't changed, and want you back as their scapegoat is if they show signs of both contempt and criticism. It often manifests in these ways:

Unsolicited advice is criticism. 

Condescension, which can be constant, shows contempt. 

Rage over what you have to say about being hurt by them is a form of contempt and criticism. 

Verbal abuse is definitely a form of criticism. 

Other signs of contempt are listed below in the next section. 

HOW DID THEY GET THIS WAY
AND CAN YOU DO ANYTHING TO STOP IT? 

I have talked about how they probably used blame-shifting as a child, but what I did not mention was that narcissists tend to grow up in environments where extrinsic values greatly trumped intrinsic values when it came to other people, so they will base worth on another person much more in terms of extrinsic values than intrinsic values. And those extrinsic values tend to be money, wealth and prestige, and have to match what they expect from the people who have these extrinsic qualities. 

The problem for narcissists is that they have decided that showing and displaying contempt is one of the ways that they feel superior (superiority is delusional thinking, but to them it only matters that they "feel" superior). In other words, they feel they must be critical and judgmental of others a whole lot in order to feel better about themselves. Usually contempt, criticisms, and being judgmental are signs of insecurity, that they are afraid they will find themselves on the outside of acceptability instead of inside acceptability. In a way, it is like passing the buck, where the more insecure they feel about acceptability, the more critical and judgmental they become, and this also fuels the demise of what ever empathy they used to have for others (usually empathy begins its wane in early childhood). In fact, it has everything to do with why they lack empathy. 

I'll explain:

When they are contemptuous, and cruel, and parental figures are laughing about people a lot (trash-talking), and when they are building their hate on assumptions, and lack of empathy, it actually turns the most intelligent of us off, rather than turns us on. It's not enlightening; it's not pleasant; and it doesn't actually convince a lot of us that they are superior, the goal they have in acting this way. 

In more powerless individuals, like children, hyper-critical behavior tends to produce anxiety at the very least, or a trauma bond at worst. If it produces fawning and ingratiating, realize that the fawning response is a trauma response.

If a person is fawning totally voluntarily, without fear or anxiety, or from being pressured, it is different than fawning over being intimidated, bullied, threatened or coerced into it. Fawning is actually the response of last resort when it comes to trauma responses, and it creates situations and outcomes that the narcissist doesn't like (which I will discuss in a future post).

If scapegoats aren't using trauma responses like defending themselves, or fawning, they can blank out when being criticized. I think the artwork I did in this piece explains how a scapegoat child can feel overwhelmed by criticism, so his mind shuts down. He might feel incredibly hurt as the art work shows, but cognitively he can't comprehend the hate unless he hates himself as much as the parent does. And some children get talked into hating themselves, and they can and do commit suicide over it too.

If you are a scapegoat, you know that the criticisms can overwhelm your entire autonomic nervous system because the criticisms from narcissists are often on all levels: your body, your mind, your interests, your personality, your emotions, your thinking, your perspectives, your experiences, the way you express yourself, the clothes you wear, the way you present yourself in public, how well you perform expectations, your sex, how much flattery you give narcissists - just about everything that you are, do and say, is met with criticism and contempt. When a child who is being criticized is blanking out and has that wide-eyed deer-in-the-headlights stare, they most likely have C-PTSD, and it is time to stop the contempt. But narcissists don't do that; they find him or her useless for not hearing anything, and continue to throw more criticism at the child for not responding to the original criticisms. Eventually when narcissists only get a PTSD stare, they neglect the child when underage, or banish when adult. 

At any rate, to insist that children fawn to abuse is to damn them to be in a prison of continued traumatization, whether that is conscious on the narcissist's part or not. Most narcissists are conscious enough to know that their scapegoat is hurt, grieving, and in pain, and that lots of pressure and bullying to "make them fawn" causes him or her a lot of anxiety. 

If I was betting, I would bet that narcissists know that they traumatize their children, otherwise why put on acts in public that they adore their children and care about them when they do not? Why spread lies and make up stories about their scapegoated children? 

HOW NARCISSISTIC CONTEMPT IS EXPRESSED 

I have already pointed out criticism. Usually scapegoated children are criticized in the extreme. Most narcissists criticize their scapegoats directly, and the remaining ones criticize their scapegoats behind their backs in a two-faced kind of way. All of it is destructive, and it is also part of the personality disorder of narcissism.

Any kind of destructive behavior towards their child's self esteem means contempt, that they don't like and love you the way that you are. Again, they only put extrinsic value in other people, whereas the rest of us put intrinsic value in others (it is why the rest of us take care of disadvantaged, disabled family members - narcissists would balk at doing that, and try to get the disadvantaged and disabled serving them instead, or they would just throw them away). 

A narcissistic parent will try to make the argument that a scapegoat child doesn't act right; that they don't dress right; that they don't look right; that they are too fat or skinny; that they are psychologically inept or damaged; that they are emotionally insane; that they are inept in terms of career and career goals. That's all part of what narcissists are up to, and what they do, and if you are a scapegoat, you are very aware that you've been treated this way most of your life. 

If you have been successful in love and career, and if they extend an invite, consider that the reason for it might be that they don't want you to be successful, that it will "ruin" their plans for you being the family scapegoat, and "ruin" what they have said about you, and therefor "ruin" the perception others have of you of being crazy or inept. Success mars their abilities to scapegoat effectively.

These are other ways they show contempt:

They get on their high horse and compare you to them (it sounds and is similar to what I've said in the previous chapter above, except it is about comparing themselves to you).
     What it can sound initially like:
"You can't say anything right",  "You can't do anything right", "Your mind and feelings are all wrong",  "You're too sensitive",  "You're crazy",  "I can't stand you", "You can't even dress right", "You'll never amount to anything", followed by: "I never had bad grades like you", "I had a lot more boyfriends at your age than you do", "I was always loved by my parents. It's too bad you aren't", "I never had zits. It's too bad you have so many of them", "I never was overweight, but you've spent most of your life being that way", "I was always well behaved. It's too bad you aren't good at it the way I was because you'd be a lot more liked if you did", "You have ratty hair. When I as a child, I never did and as a consequence, I could decide when I could get my hair cut, but you can't, so I'm going to cut your hair whether you like it or not", "I won so many awards! What have you won?", and so on. They will always deem a scapegoat to be quite a bit inferior to themselves, and even to almost everyone they know.

They also show contempt by comparing you to your siblings and other children, starting when you were very young.
     What it can sound like:
      "How come you can't do as well as Carl? Why can't you be as nice as Carl? I love Carl more than you, and I always have. I'm sorry I favor Carl, but he's a lot better at everything than you are. Carl was an easy child, and you were always difficult. Carl always knew I had his best interests at heart, but you always had to question it. Carl has always trusted me, but of course, he knows I'm trustworthy. He was always the sane one in the family, but your mind was always too messed up to realize I was always a model parent. What's wrong with you!?" - in fact, if they are still playing favorites with their children, and they are comparing you unfavorably, they still want to scapegoat you. 

Any gaslighting is the sign that they have contempt for the way you perceive things. Gaslighting is usually a sign of scapegoating. They want to dictate how you think, and what you should be thinking about and perceiving instead. It shows that they have no respect for the way that you think, or the way you experience things. It's also a nasty mind game. If gaslighting doesn't show a lot of contempt, I don't know what does.

If and when a family member insults you, abuses you, or assaults you, and they tell you that they don't want to hear it, or that you should deal with it on your own and in silence, it is a sign that they don't care about you. Narcissists generally discard scapegoats who complain about a family member's abuse and violence because they are afraid it will tarnish their image as the most superior upstanding parent. So the scapegoating becomes a must for them, more severe, more about portraying you as a villain.

If they advocate for your abuser and do not try to protect you, they probably prefer that others use you as a scapegoat too. Very few scapegoating parents protect their scapegoat child from any kind or form of abuse, because it would mean looking too carefully in the mirror at their own abuse. 

Another way they show contempt is that they eventually, after decades of scapegoating, disregard all of your feelings, thoughts, life issues, medical issues, and generally do not care to hear what you think at all, or how anything effects you. They do not show any respect towards you. When it gets to these extremes, they do not listen to what you have to say about much of anything. In other words, you will feel like you are talking to a brick wall. It can get to the point where they don't respect your boundaries, what you want and don't want from them (which can lead to invasive actions against you to prove they won't respect your boundaries regardless of what you want, like stealing, stalking, talking over you, pushing you around, kidnapping, imprisoning, physical abuse, home invasion, kidnapping, and so on). Usually when the contempt gets to the point of breaking boundaries and breaking the law, they have entered into a more anti-social personality disordered way of scapegoating (as I talked about above, where their power has caused such a degree of a lack of empathy, they can get to a point of justifying committing crimes against you). Once it has gotten to the point where they are indulging in criminal behavior, whether they still want to scapegoat you or not, should probably not concern you as much as your safety. 

the attitudes of contempt:

They have no interest in understanding you. They decide you are inferior, a second class citizen, and that they don't need to know you.

They feel they deserve good treatment from you (respect, honor, civility, praise), but don't treat you, their scapegoat child, this way by a long shot. In fact, they have the attitude that they deserve these entitlements/hypocrisies from all children, without realizing that showing a child respect, honor and civility is a more teachable moment than rattling off a bunch of rules that they cannot, and will not, follow themselves. It makes situations fake, and phony, where some children will adopt a "false self", including "fake-fawning" to narcissists and other people who they deem to have more power than they do, and talking derisively behind their back. 

They blame you in entirety for their hatred and anger towards you (we see this a lot in the prejudiced mind too).

They decide they don't need to invest in anything you want, or feel, or think (they come to believe that only their own thoughts, perspectives, and feelings are all that matter because to them, and it is all that matters to them most of the time). 

Lack of civility is always a sign of contempt. 

So is verbal abuse.

CONCLUSION

If they still want power, control and domination, they will probably still be scapegoating you.

If they can't take any blame, or they are trying to shift fault on to others, or they are engaging in talk about the faults and flaws of others, they are showing that they still need scapegoats.  

If they show a lot of contempt (even if it isn't you right away), they are still engaged in their "superior" fantasies, and blame-shifting and scapegoating is all part of it. 

Narcissists have tremendous hurdles in giving up scapegoating.

They would have to stop gaslighting, first and foremost, and they would have to stop being contemptuous of others (i.e. stop the trash-talking).

They would have to grow some ethics and empathy, and what chance is there of that?

They would also have to apologize for once in their lives instead of expecting others to do it every time there are issues, and what chance is there of that?

And they'd have to share the power instead of hoarding it all for themselves and telling people what to do and where to get off if others don't do what the narcissist wants, and what chance is there of that?

If you are tired of all of the narcissist's power games, and lust for power, and their manipulations to get more and more power, and trying to get them to talk to you in a respectful manner while they commit to threats and blackmail to get more power over you while trying to make you more and more powerless at the same time, even when it comes to your decisions about your own life, career, and relationships, then don't give them any more power. Be one of the individuals that cuts their destructive-to-everyone ambition off.

The reason they don't apologize is because not only do they not care about your feelings, they see apologies as weakness. For them it sets them back into not being the most superior faultless person on earth, and they feel they may be more vulnerable to being looked at as the same kind of faulty person that they make fun of. Remember, they've lied their entire lives, starting in childhood, keeping the faults going outward away from them, dumping them on to someone else, instead of inward.

In fact it is such a huge hurdle that they would have to give up on narcissism altogether, and be compromising and reasonable, and what chance is there of that?  

All of this is why psychologists prefer that their patients have as little to do with narcissists as is humanly possible, and especially if you are their scapegoat and have trauma symptoms or full blown PTSD. If it's obvious that they don't care about you emotionally and medically, or want to help you with your PTSD instead of making it worse, what does that say about them?  

WHO INSPIRED ME TO WRITE THIS POST

John Gottman's findings and research on contempt and how it effects the hater as well as the hated is probably the most profound inspiration for writing this post second to the many survivors who wonder if they should return to their parents after years of estrangement and a childhood as a scapegoat. 

Dr. Les Carter's video, The Sign That a Narcissist is Beyond Redemption says a lot of the same things I have said here. He also mentions John Gottman. 

My own research into the psychology of hate, prejudice and resentment played a big part in this post too, as well as research into how power corrupts and reduces empathy, sometimes to the point that they become antisocial personality disordered. There is a great piece you can read from PBS called The science behind why power corrupts and what can be done to mitigate it. It is an interview with Dacher Keltner and his research for his book called "The Power Paradox: How We Gain and Lose Influence" and it reveals these details:

Shoplifting is usually done by the wealthiest Americans, not the poorest. When given too much power, people become more unethical and think it is okay to be unethical. People with more power than those around them are more likely to stereotype. People with more power than those around them tend to stop caring about others. People with more power than those around them tend to try to broker deals that benefit them much more than the other person. People with more power than those around them tend to become much more greedy, unfair and to take a lot more resources from others than is respectful, right or fair. People with more power than those around them tend to be more exploitive. People with more power than those around them assume they can touch people any way they want without asking permission. Undoubtedly there is a lot more to explore in the actual book than in the PBS article, but the article gives you some idea of what is discussed in the book.

It also seems to explain so much about why our society seems to be getting more and more swamped by narcissistic "I-don't-care" unempathetic parenting styles and the kids who parrot them, why we seem to have approached another Gilded Age of wealth disparity where the have-nots are rarely listened to, or heard, or cared about, until it is time to vote again where politicians make the next future faking statements.

And it explains something that I had wondered about for a long time: someone who was quite wealthy in my own personal life got obsessed with stealing, hiding things, hoarding, taking way more than their fair share, and probably even breaking the law to do it. They were totally negotiation adverse too - they would just take and get "dupers delight", and a following high from it. Until I studied Antisocial Personality Disorder, and knew about the psychological impacts of gaining power over others, it made very little sense to me. 

I will have some more research articles to share with you in the post entitled "How Being Exposed to Shaming, Erroneous Blaming, Perspecticide, Gaslighting, and Most of All Fawning, Can Create Narcissism in a Child, Plus a Tease About a Personal Story". It would be redundant to list them here. 

Have a happy holiday, and don't let narcissists ruin it. 

Saturday, December 16, 2017

When all we want for Christmas is an apology from a narcissist (maybe)


If you are the victim of narcissistic abuse, perhaps all you want for Christmas is an apology.

Even if we know that the apology may just be a hoover and fraught with bad things for us (a Trojan Horse, for instance), we sometimes still want the apology.

Perhaps we know that an apology is only meant to get us back into a role accepting abuse again, but we still find ourselves aching for an apology.

If we are survivors of child abuse we can't have a parent who treats us with love, caring, respect and dignity. We've been told a million times that we can't always have what we want (far from it), and that includes a real parent, the kind of parent other people have. We also know they mean to give us a parent who is cruel to us, or rejecting of us, so that we will feel we don't deserve what others have.

If we are survivors of spousal abuse we can find another spouse, but we can't have a real heartfelt apology from the spouse who hurt us so badly. Even if we were to receive an apology, we would probably be suspicious of the intentions of that spouse or ex-spouse. We would probably ask ourselves: "Why would he (or she) hurt us so badly and trash what we have and then decide they want us back all of a sudden?" -- hmmmm .... survivors make it a point to check for ulterior motives for the rest of their lives after you have left. We aren't innocent little fawns any more.

If we are survivors of sibling abuse (the most common form of abuse), we can't have a sibling in the way other people do. No, our sibling probably only cares about taking things away from us. We aren't close; we aren't visiting each other and bringing our children together. We aren't having vacations together, laughing about old times, looking over pictures together. Most likely, all that our abusive sibling wants is everything we have, everything he can get, to control us, demean us, take away our common parent, own our common parent lock stock and barrel, get our common parent to hate us and abuse us under false charges ... How DARE we not look at them as lord and master of our lives, as well as our parents' lives? They will make all of the decisions about our common parent, and if we want to live, we better stay away and never interfere with their plans.

If we were brought up in an abusive household, we might have all three situations going on all at once. That is because we have been groomed since birth to accept abuse -- from siblings, from partners, from co-workers, from a spouse, all originating from our parent's abuse of us. Perhaps we got so used to it that we abused ourselves, even. "You're no good!" "You're worthless!" "What worthless child deserves an apology! In fact, you are so worthless you should be apologizing to everyone who ever abused you!" "Even childhood sexual abuse is too good for you! You should have been grinded up in a chipper instead when you were a kid!" "Worthless children deserve to be abused, denigrated and discarded!"

It all effects us, but we can't ever expect a real apology delivered from Santa and his reindeer. No, we can only ache with the want. We have to accept a fate more like Ann Boleyn: head chopped off for trumped up treason charges just so that King Henry could marry his next source of narcissistic supply.

We may be reprimanded or attacked for:
* expressing emotions when we are hurt (because, you know, emotions are for weaklings, and because they want to decide what emotions you are feeling and when, even when it comes to labeling them for their own needs)
* expressing emotions they don't like (because, you know, you are only supposed to be expressing emotions that they have deemed  right for the occasion)
* a facial expression they don't like (because, you know, facial expressions they don't understand, or that they deem to be "critical" of them are a punishable offense deserving of the utmost cruelty even if it was not our intent to hurt them)
* making an autonomous decision (because, you know, you certainly will never be allowed to be autonomous, and your decisions are sooooo flawed -- only they deem themselves experts in the decision-making department ... and how dare you think you can make your own decisions!!)
* making a life decision that would benefit us (because, you know, you are supposed to be selfless, only serving their needs -- how dare you make a decision on your own behalf or that would benefit you! How come you don't put them center of everything in your life?)
* having an opinion that differs from our abuser's (because, you know, you have to go along with whatever an abuser says, mindlessly and emotionlessly, in what ever brainwashed fashion they want for you)
* being spontaneous, having fun (because -- how dare you have fun! Take off that party hat now! Serving them means being abused, and you can't be abused and have fun at the same time -- how dare you get out of the role they picked for you!)
* not letting our abusive family make decisions about our life (because, you know, all decisions that should be yours have to be a family decision. Every move you make needs micromanaging, persuasion, chastising, belittling, confusing double standards, arguments, debates, being compared to others unfavorably, gaslighting ... no decisions allowed without all of that! -- otherwise you will pay and pay and pay and pay and ... )
* not keeping quiet about hypocrisies that we see (because, you know, you aren't even supposed to be seeing hypocrisies, let alone talking about them! You are only supposed to be looking at how perfect they are ... because if you see hypocrisies or dare to utter a word about it, you will pay and pay and pay and pay and ...)
* making the narcissist jealous even when we don't want them to feel jealous (because, you know, narcissists are so super jealous and insecure that only dressing down in shoes with obvious holes and shredded laces, unattractive filthy clothes, gray clothes that need mending, unwashed unkempt hair, bruises, heroin tracks on our arms, and a tear soaked face is the only thing that will make a narcissist feel better by comparison!)
* not worrying for a moment about the narcissist's super sensitive feelings and ego even as they trampled all over ours for the entire time we have known them (because, you know, only their feelings count in the mutual relationship between us)
* setting a boundary (because, you know, narcissists hate boundaries ...  and how dare we set boundaries when they feel so entitled to know everything!!!)
* for not feeling guilty (because, you know, we are supposed to feel guilty for having been born)
* for feeling sad (because, you know, you're supposed to be happy around them when they say so)
* for calling them out (because, you know, you're never supposed to call them out ... How dare you! They have decided they are too perfect for that and you better get with that program!)
* for trying to think about how we feel and think about a certain subject (because, you know, they have decided what they want us to feel and think, and nothing else will do!)
* for disagreeing with them (because, you know, they are control freaks and it is the ONLY thing they care about, and that includes getting you to agree with them at all times ... and if you don't let them have control over you at all times, you will pay and pay and pay and ... well, you know)
* for loving others (because, you know, they own us! We are only supposed to be loving them!)
* for wanting more freedom (because, you know, we should feel like we are jail birds of theirs at all times, indebted to them because they give morsels to lowly people like us and should be worshiped all over the land for it!)

Okay, so now are we cured this Christmas season from wanting an apology out of that sleigh?

(note of thanks to Lenora Thompson for her article, Narcissistic Abuse Makes Us Say “I Couldn’t”, which inspired me to write this post)

Thursday, January 5, 2017

Iced out of a holiday event? One good holiday cure when it comes to your narcissistic mother

original drawing/painting © 2017 Lise Winne

(Note: this post has to do with narcissistic mothers only. A similar one on narcissistic fathers will also be posted at some point).

As a lot of us survivors deal with a holiday of either "looks that could kill", insults, put-downs, from our narcissistic mothers or deadly silent treatments, smear campaigns and being cut out of family events (on purpose!), so I have a solution for your holiday blues that has worked for me.

I'll get to it momentarily, but first I have a couple of things to say about mothers who are either cruel, unloving or rejecting at holiday time.

I want to remind you that it is every parent's duty to love their child, not for the child to "make" themselves lovable to the parent, i.e. turn themselves inside-out to be "attractive or want-able enough for parental love".

If your parent doesn't love you for who you are, as you are, and all of your great qualities, it has to do with them, not you. It is hard to get our minds around that because we have been brainwashed to believe that we are so flawed that we can't be loved.

Your parent refusing to love you is along the same lines as prejudicy, bigotry, and witch hunts (vilifying). It is not commendable and it is irrational. Unfortunately it is what some of the more less evolved humans do: hate people they don't know or understand, or want to know or understand (they are often non-investigative and their reality is based on irrational belief systems). Narcissists are incapable of empathizing, and empathy is a key ingredient to love (that's the classic definition of a narcissist anyway: lack of empathy). Like bigots, narcissists judge instead, so their prejudicy can seem maniacal, even towards their own children.

Anyway, this prejudicy, this witch hunt to make you out to be the bad guy is mostly them trying to put the blame on someone for how they feel in their own lives. It may be that they feel overlooked the way they did in childhood (especially if they were a neglected child). It may be about feeling entitled to treat others in ways that they would not like to be treated. It may be about growing up witnessing bullying and abuse and wanting to do that too.

Basically unloving, rejecting, abusive parents are people who have very little tolerance for children who don't feel absolutely familiar to them -- and yes, that can include their own children. To them, a child can seem like someone from a different tribe, and in their paranoid minds, even from an enemy tribe. It's just a typical part of the narcissism: they like mirroring people, and people who mirror, and people who try to mirror, and people who adopt mirroring. Sometimes they want a mirror that does not show a speck of imperfection about them, one that says "You're right all of the time" or "You're beautiful all of the time" or "You win all of the time." They also tend to like people who think that their tribe is superior and worth belonging to even when it is just a pit of snakes for many of its members. They also think they are perfect, and any deviation from thinking that they aren't can be a great threat to them.

Think about it: isn't it incredibly BIZARRE that when so many narcissists feel criticized (operative word here is feel) that they go into an annihilating rage where they want to destroy you, their relationship with you, where you are suddenly and swiftly nothing to them?

The problem is: the more perfect that they want to be and the more destructive their temper tantrums are over it, the less perfect they seem to others. In fact, they seem like horrible mothers, and can even have the reputation of being evil.

Most of the time parental rejection has to do with what they grew up with and what seems most familiar to them. If they grew up with narcissistic parents who were neglectful, cruel, or dismissive, they may be neglectful, cruel and dismissive, or they may be attracted most to family members who act in those ways. If your parent grew up with addicted parents, they may be attracted to children who seem most like an addict. This is their choice, and you can't do anything about it because they like mirrors!!

Who wants to be their mirror? Us? Nooooooo!!!!

So, we just have to realize we are not "one of them" and be really proud of the fact that we are not "one of them."

Of all the narcissists that you know, do you envy any of them? I sure don't.

Most of the narcissists I have known in my life (and I have known too many unfortunately) are glib. They are not strong people, they do not fight for causes unless it directly benefits them or makes them look socially attractive or superior, they are seldom inventive, they are rarely honest or good sports, their lives seem empty, they work at occupations that I would never want, they grasp desperately at status and flattery even though most of them do not have status nor are worthy of half the flattery they demand. Most of the ones I have known do not like hard work either. They particularly do not like working at worthwhile relationships, preferring to move on in order to find a new source of narcissistic supply. In fact most don't like hard work all -- usually preferring to delegate.

And their relationships are the least enviable of all. Their relationships with their own children are terrible, even. Let's face it, children are NOT good sources of narcissistic supply because when they are small they are needy and they have an instinct to cry when they require something. When they are teenagers they usually want more autonomy, and this can include putting their peers first before their parents. For this reason, teens can be rebellious against their parents, an absolute nightmare for the parent who is counting on children to give them narcissistic supply. When children become adults, their main focus is on careers, and raising their own children and family. Almost no children idealize or idolize their parents, especially when they are past seven years old.

So why do narcissists endeavor to try to make their children into supply anyway? Why do they want it so badly that many will try to arm-twist their children into it, even when most children have no tolerance, liking or need to "praise Mom or else be punished". The arm-twisting to get narcissistic supply tells children right away they are bad parents. Many children leave arm-twisting parents in the dust.

So why do they do it when their best source for obtaining narcissistic supply is the criminal (and not kidding about that). A criminal will overlook all of their faults, play the sycophant, and flatter them to death, especially if your narcissistic parent has money.

And who envies that? Not me! I think we all know that narcissists attract these types and keep them around -- as if that will make their lives better.

If they don't have those kinds of people, they have scared co-dependents who rely on them for something whether that be money, intermittent approval, status, a job, lodging, or some other thing. The thing is, because the narcissist is so cruel, the co-dependent will usually have no trouble walking away when the money, approval, job, lodging, etc, dries up and is no longer available.

Who envies that kind of relationship? Not me!

In fact, these two extremes are usually ALL that narcissists are capable of in relationships. Can you imagine?

In fact, we are all attracted to what we know. What survivor of child abuse hasn't been through a string of love affairs or marriages with narcissists? Narcissists only make up one percent of the population, but somehow they know how to find us survivors, even though we don't want one more relationship with another narcissist for as long as we live, and tell the world that. But somehow, some way, these awful narcissists seem to find us anyway ... They are attracted to adults who were abused as children. They know how to detect someone with low self esteem, and they can sometimes even tell that we were expected to please an impossible-to-please narc parent.

Well, your parent attracts narcissists too, just like we survivors do, except they seem to want to keep them around. It's that being attracted to a mirror thing again. And it is probably liking being in a pack of predators too. A lot of narcissists who are flattery addicts end up with sociopathic narcissists even. The types of sociopaths who like narcissists may be step parents: someone who tries to figure out how to drive your narcissistic mother's children off with trumped up charges, someone who might try to seduce your narcissistic mother out of a committed marriage, someone who might plan a scheme to get total control of your mother, someone who senses there is money your narcissistic mother's coffers. Narcissists who are flattery addicts (most of them are) are vulnerable to sociopaths.

There is a much more rare breed of narcissist who spends their holidays with children who will bend over backwards for them, who will do anything for them, who the narc is turning into the ultra-servant. Sometimes the narc parent will keep out the children not willing to be servants. But usually, let's face it, if your parent prefers the company of empaths, they do NOT tend to leave anyone out: they are going to try to get the children and grandchildren in one big unit competing with one another as to who can bend over backwards for them the most. They want ALL of their children and grandchildren around, fighting it out.

... Not that being a servant is a bad thing, and taking care of a parent is commendable. But, most empathetic children are rejected and derided in narcissistic families. There is a breed of narcissist who makes it their preference to be surrounded by empaths instead of bullies. These would be your more extroverted and engulfing narcissists, either the life of the party, or the cult-leader type.

But suppose the golden child is the caregiving variety of co-dependent, super sensitive to all of your parent's every whim and ache, and you've been iced out because your life goal is not to be their full time caretaker or because your parent has rejected you too many times over nothing to feel secure in the parent-child relationship, or of making your parent a priority. Heck, I have known adult children who were rejected by a narc parent for a look on their face -- and that was ALL it was. Who needs that? Who even wants to bend over backwards for a parent who treats you like that?

So, your destiny may be to do something else, something grand. It's that making lemonade out of lemons thing -- and yes, I have been there, so I say it from experience, not just education. Sometimes scapegoats find that their purpose is to do something more than being a punching bag for a family, or trying to please a rejecting Princess and the Pea. If it wasn't for being "an outsider" of our family, we might never have become all we could be: invented something, or gone to school, or had a chance to travel, or moved to a place that was away from mom or dad, or been accepted into a more compatible family of choice. Sometimes their rejection is a blessing!

Who they will choose to spend the holidays with is not worth thinking about for all of these reasons and more. Do you look forward to a holiday where the jokes are all insecure veiled insults sometimes with threats or imperious judgments about other people? I sure don't!

Narcissists are either rejecting people, or they are engulfing people who can't let anyone alone. It's either ice or hot jungle, take your pick. There is no inbetween.

Most children of abusive narc parents have the ice variety, and if you have gotten this far in this post, I would bet that you are the kind of survivor who got iced out in some way by your narc parent.

There is something about being told you are a not-good-enough child. You tend, eventually, to think of your parent as not-good-enough either. Funny about that. It just tends to settle into that reciprocity and co-perspective, that fixed chasm, which I guess is just another mirror in the narcissist's world.

So, following is my cure for getting the narc parent out of our heads for the holidays:

What it is:

It is writing from hundreds of survivors and it is called "You Know You Have a Narcissistic Mother When --- ". Personally, some of it gets me laughing. Other posts are really sad and awful. Most of all it puts me in touch with a huge laundry list of what I'm not missing at all when it comes to spending holidays with narcs!  Believe me, if you don't want abuse in your life, you really, really want to miss out on many of the things abusive parent(s) or family do to ruin your holidays. Personally, when I go through this list, I get back to enjoying the hot cider, the beautiful tree, the Christmas songs and New Year's jamming with my musician friends.

These are all true stories. There were over 250 of them originally (not counting the even more copious amount of comments), so I picked the best of them. I put "when" in front of some of the entries to be consistent, cleaned up some of the grammar, and took names out.

If you have a narc parent, you can relate to most of it. So here we go!

You know you have a narcissistic mother when:

- When she accuses you of stealing her jewelry, and doesn't forgive you when she finds it later...in her bedroom!

- When you mention in conversation that you are going to shop for a new flat iron and she insists on going shopping with you to get it. When she sees it, it is the last one on the shelf, and she decides she has to have it instead and thinks nothing of buying it from right under your nose. Even smiles.

- When you talk about another person, any person, and she gets jealous, and looks like she wants to bite your head off.

- when she calls security like a dumb ass demanding to be in the labor room when you're birthing your child and screams "if it wasn't for me giving you life you wouldn't have this moment to treasure! So you owe me!"........
     comment: this is literally my nightmare. omg no
     comment: Mine was a nurse on the palliative care unit and wore her scrubs and ID badge onto maternity thinking she'd go unnoticed. When I needed an emergency c section only DH could go with me. But somehow she sneaked in even tho it was clearly stated to her. That bitch scooped up my daughter and held her before me and my husband could stop her. The last person I would want to hold my baby, let alone for the first time.
     comment: I hate to say it but what hideous bitches we all have as " moms" how any of us haven't seriously hurt them or ourselves is a miracle

     comment: Mine was FURIOUS she wasn't allowed to see the birth of my neice. We had to have the nurse kick her out.
     comment: I didn't want my nm there at all - of course she showed up -3rd husband she'd just married in tow and couldn't understand why I didn't want him in my labor and delivery room ... ?!?!
     comment: They think it's THEIR baby! They can't stand it that it's yours! Hate em


- When she gets angry that you don't call her on her birthday even though she's been giving you the silent treatment for months! lol
     comment: Ha! Ha! So funny!
     comment: We shouldn't laugh, but that is funny!
     comment: Lol omg true
     comment: So true! Has happened to me
     comment: My mom has been giving me the silent treatment for 7 months!! And I seriously felt guilty that I didn't call her this year and for all of the grandkids. I thought it was ALL MY fault. Wow! I never realized so many other people went through that too!! I'm learning so much!

- When you tell them how hurt you are by what they did, and they turn it around and tell you that you hurt them instead. It happens every time. Why can't they hear that you're hurt? Why is it always about them?
     comment: Gaslighting...classic! Hugs.
     comment: Yes, gaslighting, they do it every time! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM! We've all been through it.
     comment: Yes. After decades of dealing with it, followed by years of trying distance (physical/emotional) and civility, I gave up and went NC. It's exhausting. I am beyond sick of any gaslighting. zero tolerance.
     comment: Yes, been there done that too many times. All done now!
     comment: These parents have no love for their kids. Blame them over any silly things to hurt them
     comment: Crazy parents who have to gaslight their kids just so they don't have to face the fact they hurt their kids.
     comment: Age old abuse tactic. Don't tell them anything. The only thing I found that works with gaslighting is to either talk like a robot with no emotion or go NC. They either get off on hurting their kids or they deny they hurt their kids. Most of us are done with it.


- When she doesn't call for a couple of days after you watched your dad die and says she wasn't going to the funeral because she wasn't that close to him anyways even tho they've been married for 30 years
     comment: Sorry
     comment: just like my mother
     comment: I'm so sorry


- When she presses fake charges against you, the cops show up to get your side of the story and you, the cop, the judge, and your attorney laugh about it after court is over.

- When they steal the carbon monoxide detector out of your house just to put it on their garage shelf.
     comment: I mean who really steals carbon monoxide filters??? Narcissists, of course! lol

- When she reams you out for being a bad mom because your baby is crying and.clearly hungry when you know you just fed him, and discovers her corsage has scratched his cheek and doesn't apologize
     comment: It was her corsage and not her tiara?
     comment: bahahaha!

- Here's one. Because it's classic:


























     















     comment: yup
     comment: Omg .are we related!! I am in stun shock. God i get it!

- When she tells you she isn't going to leave you anything in her will. Duh, I just wanted her to be a mother!
     comment: classic
     comment: yes, you'll find a lot of that here
     comment: they love this threat. next.
     comment: that's the only desperate threat they have because they know they are shit mothers
     comment: we all know this one.


- When your inbox is totally full and its all from messages from her. In only 1 day!! :)))
     comment: I really want to parrot the typical manipulative response to be funny, but I don't want to post a trigger for someone else... *Biting tongue*
     comment: *spewing coffee!* Too funny and too familiar!

- When she comes back at you with, "How could you do this to me!" Especially when you tell her you are not a virgin lol

- When your mother says "You're looking kinda chubby, here's some zit cream." -Indian give presents for major holidays and to embarrass you.

- When you've never liked or eaten coconut, like your whole life, and your mom makes you a German Chocolate cake for your birthday. Oh yea, just happens to be her favorite. "Oh no! I didn't know that you didn't like coconut!".... Oh really, after I told you dozens of times.
     comment: Yes, they do that!
     comment: SO RELATE!!! Both my mother AND MIL have done this to me!!!
     comment: This is what they do. It's always about getting a reaction.
     comment: This happened to me and I was allergic to the food she put in the cake. "Here child, and croak on it while you are at it."
     comment: Yea, they hate us so much that they want to poison us or give us food we hate, and all on our birthday! Bitches!
     comment: This is kind of like Munchhausen by Proxy except they are trying to poison us emotionally (get us upset). They should make up a word for it like Emotionally Abusive Munchhausen. Terrible.
     comment: they are known for giving us stuff we don't want. Who among us has gone shopping with our mothers and actually got what we wanted?
     comment: not me
     comment: not me either
     comment: god forbid we should be happy over something we actually want!


- When it takes more than two to five minutes to solve a conflict with them...
     comment: How about a lifetime! The conflicts never end, and of course she is never at fault; everyone else is even if she has to make up some bizarre story to prove it.
     comment: Yours get solved?? Haha


- When you buy her a bday, xmas, mother's day gift, and she ends up giving it back bc "she'll never use it." After too many give-backs I thought about giving her a care package of toilet paper, toothpaste, and deodorant. LOL!
     comment: I bought my mom and step-dad a romantic dinner at a nice restaurant. Had to save up for it. A year later she regifted them...to me. I'm single.

- When you ask her to tell you the story of your birth and she says, "you were born not breathing, I had a bad cramp in my leg, none of the doctors or nurses cared about my cramp because everyone was crowded around you to get you breathing."
     comment: Translation: you're a pain in my leg.

- When she cuts out my face in her photo album where I'm with my children and puts her narcissistic face into the holes where mine was cut out, and doesn't see why I'm Pissed!
     comment: my mother is always cutting out family members in her photos. Pretty soon she'll have no one left to cut out. Kinda like her life
     comment: these mothers can't deal with what they do to their family members so they cut them out thinking it will make their lives better. Then when some non-family member picks it up cuz its left on the coffee table she tells them that it's her kids photo album, but none of her kids are in it!! lol.
     comment: that whole "lie on the fly" maneuver didn't work out so well, did it? Ha!
     comment: it's good when they are caught at being looney tunes
     comment: cutting their children out of photos is so classic. They don't really want us to exist after all.

     comment: she probably does understand why you're pissed. That's a lot of why they do it. To get a reaction. Like "Pissed is good. Now maybe I'll try something else to get her goat." Evil little plans.

- When she gifts your siblings the things you wanted.

- When your grandfather dies and she knows your dad will be coming into an inheritance, so rather than consoling her family, disappears to Macy's for four hours and returns with a new wardrobe.

- When your mom calls you and says the only reason you are on birth control is so you can go have all the sex you want behind your husband's back without getting pregnant. She has this great fantasy going on in her head that I cheat. That's because she does.
     comment: projection!

- when she gets mad that you won't let her control your wedding plans, the where, the when, the who etc. You finally stand up for yourself and she says, "you really are a fucking bitch." And then she boycotts your wedding and tells ALL your family members not to come. Since they are all scared of her, they don't come.
Wedding day...there are 64 family and friend members on my husband's side and 8 friends, step dad, (who NM cheated on) and sister on my side. Awkward much?! Sigh.

     comment: Ugh, they do that ... and at graduations, funerals, going into surgery, any time the event is about you. It gets to the point where you scratch them off the list.
     comment: So sad!!!
     comment: I think we could count thousands of posts and comments here where NMs have ruined weddings. 
     comment: Do they ever NOT ruin weddings?
     comment: best thing to do: tell your inlaws that you have an abusive crazy family. Show them evidence. Then if your mother ruins the wedding or gets too drunk or makes a scene, then they won't be surprised. Sometimes inlaws are the most supportive family we'll ever have.


- when you reply to an Oprah casting call looking for mother-daughter conflict and the producer calls and says "your mother is crazy." (I declined to appear because quite frankly, I thought she might kill me...and she might have)

- When you get a full scholarship for one of the top colleges in the nation and her reaction is - " well it's not that big of a deal, you'll never be as good as your cousin." PS - my cousin goes to community college.

- When you spend copious amounts of your hard earned money to create a perfect Christmas and she gifts you Q Tips
     comment: Seriously?
     comment: yes, #true story


- When she screams for 45 minutes at you in the car on your way to your first highschool art exhibit, telling you that you are a bitch, that she hates that you were ever born, that you are a spawn of the devil and that she NEVER loved you, and then when you get there, she turns her rage off instantly and acts nice, like you are her star child. Whoa! I'm standing there dumbfounded and stunned with a PTSD episode from hell and she tells all these other mothers about how proud she is of me and I'm looking at her suspicious. She comes over to hug me and I stand there as stiff as a tree. When I can't seem to move she tells em all that I'm a little crazy and that I'll snap out of it eventually. That was years ago. I couldn't take any more. I now believe in NC from here until eternity.
     comment: gaslight.
     comment: yup, gaslighting.

- When, as a child, she gave you a toy, and you love it, really love it, and it goes missing mysteriously, and you are heartbroken. Then it shows up in a present she gives your cousin.

- When she tosses your bedroom in search of your diary and when confronted she replies "you know I'm nosey, you should have hidden it better" then proceeds to get angry at you for discussing the violation of privacy and breaks all of your belongings

- When after your dad dies she rearranges the entire house and removes all the photos of you and your children and only keeps up ones of her and the GC. The GC and her family who haven't been around in 20 years! And then when you finally get the courage to ask her about why pictures of you aren't on the wall, she smiles and says all the pictures of you are in her bedroom. They were/are not.

- When you break your leg and all of a sudden her arm hurts really bad and she needs to tell you that it hurts worse than your broken leg.
     comment: you describe their behaviour and it's so crazy people think you're insane.
     comment: If a person hasn't experienced narcissism they can't truly understand it. Which shouldn't be a surprise, even those who've experienced it are often at a loss to figure it out.
     comment: Only those close to me understand. I gave up trying to explain any of it to anyone else. I guess we have to understand why people would be perplexed about a mother caring about some somatic thing in her arm when their kid has a broken leg and is in the hospital.


- When your 81 year old mother doesn't know how to use her smart phone and "butt dials" you while ranting about you. And you answer and hear the whole thing loud and clear through your bluetooth. And you tell her she did it and she claims to NOT KNOW what you are talking about. #truestory#Jesustakethewheel

- When she tells you in the car with all your kids, "you're lucky I didn't believe in abortions when I was pregnant with you"
     comment: OMG.. Mine told in me in front of my friends one day, "Well you should have been aborted but I didn't do that" and for no apparent reason.

- When you broke your toe and couldn't walk and asked your mother or sister to get you a pain killer and they both say no and watch you drag your foot across the floor in agony to get yourself painkillers.

- When you are 7, wake up to a garage sale at your house and she's sold all your toys.
     comment: happened to me too
     comment: That happened to me at the age of 9 . Not only that but she emptied us kid's bank accounts -leaving us for her boyfriend


- when I raise my voice at my son and put him in time out, she rages and abuses me, and thinks she can provide him a better life. Are you fucking kidding me? It's enough that I had to live with that nightmare! Not my kid!!

- when she's an alcoholic who made your childhood miserable and when she at last joins AA, she decides YOU have to "make amends" to HER.
     comment: She is not really getting what AA is about, is she
     comment from poster: I know AA works for a lot of people, but she totally turned me off it. She never worked the program yet became a beloved speaker and sponsor. Such a fake. 
When she died, we dutifully held a memorial per her wishes at her AA club. We should have won Oscars for being able to keep a straight face as people told us how lucky we were to have had her as a mother. Good thing they had no idea what a liar she was.
     comment: omg. only a narc would fake the 12 steps.

- When she calls the cops on for you trespassing on your own property!
     comment: ahahaha! Best one I've seen all night!

- When you were a young girl who started her period and never knew anything about the situation so you put your underwear in the bin and she goes through the bin, takes your underwear out and throws it all at your 13 year old innocent self and calls you a filthy slut.
     comment: Ouch. We share a similar story. I was ashamed and felt dirty so hid mine under the bathroom cabinet as I was overwhelmed. Of course she found them, called in my dad and ripped me apart and humiliated me and I wanted to die. Made me sick for a long time. Hugs
     comment: I yelled from the bathroom " mom , it's time " and in storms her 2nd husband accusing me of being pregnant...WTF ?!     
     comment: welcome to a narc mother's view of reaching womanhood. 

- When my brother recently committed suicide and she comments that she is more depressed than he ever was and his suicide was like he was in a car accident! Yea, that didn't go well! We haven't talked since the week before Thanksgiving.

- When she gives you the silent treatment for 10 years but wants you back because your sibling isn't so golden lately.
     comment: typical

- When you catch her at a lie and she says you need to see a psychiatrist

- When you take her to lunch and the waiter takes our picture together. Then she yells that I made her look old & fat & that I'm a terrible photographer. Even though I didn't take the picture since I'm in the picture too!
     comment: Bahaha!! So dumb. Our mothers are literally toddlers

- When, as an adult, she locks one of your shoes in her room so you can't leave.
     comment: That's actually against the law -- called false imprisonment. I learned the hard way.
     comment: good to know!


- when you say you "I love you" and she says "I know"!
     comment: Mine would say "mmm hmm"

- When your 14 year old self told her you wanted to be a dancer and she laughed in your face and said you loved food too much

- When she blames you because she left her moon roof open on her car, on a night it rains, and you get beat for it. I was in first grade.

- when what she said and did was so abusive and so fucked up I can't even tell people why I have no contact. "Her? Such a great lady!" as if I'm lying! And then they look at me like I did something to her. Now I make up lesser reasons or make it about myself."

     comment: we have all been through this. NMs wear a mask. they have a "bitch switch" that they turn on and off in an instant. they laugh at what they get away with. It's good we have this group.

- When you're 8 years old and alone in a house with a 2 year old and an infant, changing and washing cloth diapers, mixing bottles, making meals, cleaning. Then your toddler brother wakes you up because he had an accident and is terrified Mom will find out and needs your help to hide it. So you change his pj's and sheets and do the laundry and you're only 8 years old.
     
- When you're her only girl child and she says to the neighbor, right in front of you, "I like boys better."

- When she throws away your IVY league college acceptance letters and lies to you about what happened to them, just so you can't move away from them and go to college.

- When she puts bills in your name and doesn't pay them

- When they tell you to run off and kill your self

- when they tell you that they want your life to be a story that pays them money.

- when she bad mouths you to your son even when she's on her death bed and he believes her and berates you throughout her funeral, bad mouths his sisters, and walks away with almost her entire estate. C'est la vie.

- When they tell your grandmother that you are a prostitute. I've been a licensed medical doctor for over 13 years!

     comment: the shite they tell is laughable.
     comment: Like they haven't known us our whole lives! WTH is that all about?!


- When you realize that you act more mature than your mother... and your only 10 years old

- When you've had every counselling going since the age of 17 ..humanistic. .cognitive. ..psychodynamic. ..and at the age of 43...you read a book called ' I'm not crazy it's my mother' ..and suddenly then everything makes sense!!!

- When she says she doesn't understand why you hate her so much and exclaims, it's not like she was a bad mother to you growing up because she wasn't addicted to drugs or prostituting herself. Wow, the bar you set for yourself, dear mother, is so high! Not being a drunk or a slut must make you a great mother! Barf!

- When your mom takes all of your pain medication for herself after you have a medically necessary surgery at 12 years old and you get to recover with no pain relief at all

- When she tells you to divorce your hard working husband so you can qualify for public assistance like her! Of course, now she wonders why we are no contact, lol

- Wow. This thread is so incredibly eye-opening. I had no idea NMs could all be so terrifyingly similar. Heartbreaking and enlightening.

- When you're happily engaged to be married and she passes out your phone number to the loser men at the drive-thru at the liquor store
     comment: What an asshole! I'm dying laughing though! Dude, she couldn't even go for drive thru banking? She must want you to be with an alcoholic!
     comment by poster: yes, just like her. And to live in her southern cracker town
     comment: Omg omg please say they called!! Heya is you thurr? Wonderin if you wanted to split this *hick* discount jug of wine, I'm fixin *hick* to get off werk. Whatcher say, thar *hick* missy?
     comment: OMG I'm feeling lucky that my NM hates people enough not to give out my number to strangers!


- when she came to look after me after I had a horrible miscarriage and decided that while she was there she would have a facelift so I could take care of her! I kid you not!

- When your mom stages a fake car burglary with her new boyfriend. You're only 16. He was hiding in the backseat with a ski mask on and wrapped his arms around me from behind as we drove down the road in the middle of the night. They kept up the act for at least a few minutes of terrifying hell until they started laughing hysterically. Ya, real funny mom...
     comment: That is SO fucked up. I'm sorry!!!
     comment: That's sickening.


- When she puts her dog first and her grandchildren second
     comment: That's because they can train a dog to worship them lol
     comment: Exactly as if they are Almighty God.


- When she spends several hours diddling with her VCR, comes to you, her SG, and asks for help to get the tape out that is stuck. You discover the reason she couldn't get a tape out of the VCR is because there isn't one in there (LOL). You do your best to remain serious as she is quite upset about the machine eating a tape ... and explain there is no tape in the machine. She then insists that you must have stolen the tape when she wasn't looking. It's okay to roll your eyes and laugh now 😂

- When you cancel dinner plans with her and her friend because you're six months pregnant and have just finished a 10 hour work day and need sleep, so she doesn't speak to you for 10 years
     comment: Man that is a blessing!
     comment from poster: took me a while to realise it, but yes
     comment: Wish my mother did that. When you'd rather have a mother not talk to you than beat you ... I get it.
     comment from poster: I think because I was pregnant it gave me the strength not to beg her forgiveness as I always had done, I knew I didn't want my daughter caught up in her drama and nastiness so I stood my ground. It's not over though, she upped her game and her behaviour is psycho but at least now I know not to respond and that you can't reason with a crazy person.
     comment: Amen to that!


- When your husband dies and she calls all her friends over to support her through the terrible time and then yells at you for being too catatonic to entertain her friends while they're there supporting her. But it's my husband!
     comment: omg, that's awful
     comment: horrible
     comment: I'm so sorry


- My heart breaks for those of you whose NMs have told y'all they wish they had aborted you. I can't even imagine how that must feel or how hard that is to heal from. 
I don't think my mom ever wanted children. I think she just had us (or me anyway) because that's what she figured she was supposed to do, because that's what was expected. Push out some kids, make sure they stay alive and and voila! You're the best fucking parent ever! You did it. Congrats, NM. You're the fucking star of all of our posts. Asshole(s).
     comment: Mine got drunk (somewhat regularly) and admitted to me that if abortion had been legal in 1962...
     comment: How about she has 5 children and tells people that she hates kids. Lol. Or that she never wanted children. She would say it whilst in public even


- When your NM falls and breaks her wrist and shatters her leg to the knee cap ... She lays outside on the ground for seven hours in December snow, cold develops two huge clots in her lungs and she has a heart attack and barely survives. You take off a semester to practically live with her at the hospital for five months as she recuperates. Then the Golden Child Sister shows up for 4 days. From Another state. You find out that your Golden Child Sister is bragging to everybody that if your mother dies she gets everything in the estate. Sure enough a will surfaces while NM is fighting for her life and GC gets it all. When NM has lawyers draw up a new will the GC stomps off and goes back to her state mad. It's the wacky world of narcissists.

- When NM says she's never had a problem with either of my siblings. But the truth is that she punched one when he was trying to leave her then she had him sent to juvy and the other one she ended up trying to stab. Then she tried to kill herself. Why do NMs say things like they never had a problem with your siblings when they did all of this? Hard to understand.
     comment: they don't know what reality is because they lie so much, and they also can't figure out what they lie about, and what the details of their lies were. They al;so can't figure out which lies they told to which people. Who knows why they want to live that way.

- When your younger sister confides in your brother that she had been sexually abused by her father and NM calls the school and gets my sister on the phone and tells her she needs to apologize to her father for making up those lies.
     comment: This is one of those sad things that narcissists do, and all of them it seems. I have never heard of one that tried to stop sexual abuse -- maybe because they want their kids abused, sad to say.

- When you tell NM that you are being bullied by your brother and the only response you get is how much they did for you, and even contributed to your college (140 dollars - lol!), and that you're so ungrateful.
     comment: They like that ungrateful praise and will use it over the tiniest things. We need to be grateful for being smacked around, ignored, abused, because it's better than nothing - their narcissistic logic.

- when she gives you the silent treatment for ten years because you got married and had children. Then at a family event she comes up to you and wants to pretend that you and she and your kids are the biggest happiest family and have always had a great relationship. When you wince, and hate that she's even touching your kids, and you tell her to go away, because she's giving you the major creeps. What does she do? She looks at you and your kids like she wants to kill you and them. No remorse, no apology, no realization that ten years doesn't make her part of my family, just wants to strangle you for not going along with her attempt to pretend she hasn't rejected you for ten years.
     comment: it's all about the image!
     comment: image is EVERYTHING to them
     comment: strangers are who they live for and family is nothing to these people. They literally love anything superficial. 

- when my uncle tried to sexually abuse me when I was younger but I put up a fight. I had nightmares about it and opened up to my mother 2 years later. She told my sister what I told her and they were both laughing at me saying I was lying. I then found out a few weeks ago that my uncle was actually a convicted sex offender and she knew all about it. When I confronted her and asked her why she deliberately left me alone with a sex offender she got defensive and abused me and said how DARE I accuse her brother of being a pedophile, I then proceeded to tell her that he was a convicted sex offender and I knew everything that's why he was jailed for so long. I gave her dates of his convictions and she still tried to call me a liar, and how DARE I MAKE THINGS UP ABOUT HER BROTHER. I'm lead to believe that she intentionally left me alone with him and knew what he was like. He even raped his own sister.

- When your beloved younger sibling dies suddenly when you are 18, but you're not allowed to grieve just yet, because you're a singer and she insists on you singing at the service in front of several hundred people.
     
- When she threatens to tell the cops you touched your father when he nearly choked you to death. Two against one...wasn't gonna win that one

- When your sister and mother gang up on you and kick you to the floor whilst holding your hair and then call the cops and side up with each other so you get taken away in a dimmy van and never allowed back to your home.
     comment: I swear to god we have the same mother

- When she never, once, said she loved you. When she never once helped with homework but beat you if your grades were bad. When she never, once got up in the morning to fix you breakfast or to see you off to school. When she never had a conversation with you that wasn't used against you in some damning or embarrassing way.

- Here's one: So I used to be an army wife of 24 years. My husband was infantry. His 9th deployment in total this one, Iraq 04 05. His first Purple Heart, his humvee blown up, he received wounds to the left side of his body; arm, face, neck, jaw line, hand, wrist etc. He was in a coma for a little while. Two of the soldiers were killed as well..
Because, there was so much fighting going on in Iraq and there were so many casualties of u.s. armed soldiers, President George Bush and his wife flew to check on the families. Actually came to check on me but my own mother does not call for 30 days. We were interviewed by the BBC and CNN because of this. She still doesn't call. The planet acknowledges us, the news acknowledges us, the president and his wife fly Air Force One to our installation to check on us, because of the severity and the amount of casualties that our families were going through AND my own mother doesn't even f-cking call..
Around a month later, I called my mother she answers the phone, she asked me how I am... I told her what happened.... she says "Oh your sister told me that about a month ago, is he okay?". My response was "Someone tried to murder my husband, you didn't call! He was in a coma, you didn't call! I was almost a widow with 4 kids and you didn't call! The F-cking President came to see us and you couldn't F-cking call??? Wow you finally showed me your truest true colors! Am I starting to realize that you don't love me??" and I hung up on her. She didn't call back for years....