What is New?

WHAT IS NEWEST ON THIS BLOG?
October 20 New Post: When Narcissists Pit Children Against Each Other to Win Their Affection, This is What It is Largely About
September 26 New Post: Dealing with Overwhelming Emotions From Narcissistic Abuse, an Introduction. Comes With a Discussion on Dysregulated Emotions.
August 21 New Post: Things Narcissists Get Wrong About Punishing Their Scapegoat Adult Children. Includes Some Discussion on Medical and Emotional Issues in Both.
August 11 New Post: If people don't want to hear what you have to say, it is normal for you to not want to hear what they have to say either. Comes with a discussion on narcissism
July 30 New Post: Is It Possible that Gen Z and Millennials Having to Work 2 - 3 Jobs Is Contributing to the Nationwide Trend of Estrangement With Parents in the USA?
July 21 New Post: Don't Narcissists Care About Hurting You?
July 14 (edited on 10/18/26) New Post: Reviews of "Narcissistic Rehab", "Narcissistic Detox" and "No More Narcissists" on Facebook
June 23 New Post: How I Came to Forgive the Narcissists in My Life (and it may not be what you think)
June 6 New Post: Why Do Sycophants Feel They Need to Follow Someone Who is So Unethical, Power Hungry, Cruel and Narcissistic? Comes with Personal Stories and a Deep Dive Into the Subject.
May 18 New Post: Family Obligation and the Scapegoat. Do You Owe Your Narcissistic Family Anything?
April 26 New Post: An Update: New Studies on Scapegoats of Narcissistic Families, Wills and Narcissistic Parents, Dissociation, and Some Other Topics of Note
April 6 New Post: Why Scapegoats of Narcissistic Families Are Unlikely To Turn Into Sycophants. Part II.
March 29 New Post: A Domestic Violence Situation and Tale - from a well known Canadian Musician.
March 9 New Post: Why Scapegoats of Narcissistic Families Find It Impossible to Turn Themselves Into Sycophants. Comes with a Discussion on Largely Involuntary Independent Thinking, C-PTSD and Healing.
PERTINENT POST: ** Hurting or Punishing Others to Teach Them a Lesson - Does it Work?
PETITION: the first petition I have seen of its kind: Protection for Victims of Narcissistic Sociopath Abuse (such as the laws the UK has, and is being proposed for the USA): story here and here or sign the actual petition here
Note: After seeing my images on social media unattributed, I find it necessary to post some rules about sharing my images
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Showing posts with label hypocrisy. Show all posts
Showing posts with label hypocrisy. Show all posts

Sunday, November 14, 2021

Why Do Narcissists Feel So Entitled and Why are They So Rebellious?


ENTITLEMENT

According to the Help Guide article Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

Sense of Entitlement:
Because they consider themselves special, narcissists expect favorable treatment as their due. They truly believe that whatever they want, they should get. They also expect the people around them to automatically comply with their every wish and whim. That is their only value. If you don’t anticipate and meet their every need, then you’re useless. And if you have the nerve to defy their will or “selfishly” ask for something in return, prepare yourself for aggression, outrage, or the cold shoulder.

Entitlement is one of the major signs and symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (that whole article is worth reading if you are new to studying narcissism).

If you have a disagreement with the narcissist, expect that they will leave you with a list of demands that they expect to be fulfilled. If you don't fulfill them, you will be given the cold shoulder and they will try to smear your reputation and character. While it is extremely hurtful, don't take it personally - realize that it is part of their disorder.

Dr. Ramani Durvasula (whose video I have inserted below) makes a very good case that a narcissist's sense that they deserve entitlements that others do not deserve, has a deep connection to why they are not empathetic. I recommend it even though it's for narcissist's ears to hear, not their victims.  

In most relationships with narcissists, make-ups aren't a mutual effort. They expect you to make all of the efforts and overtures (that's often the first time you see their entitlement). If you don't do it, most of them just give you the silent treatment and try to sully your reputation. It is their way of showing you contempt for not doing as they please. Most of them go on to someone new who they think will better serve their needs. Usually that is as far as it goes. 

However, it can go much further where they are dangerous to you: stalking, threats, threats of physical or social harm, sexual abuse, financial threats and financial abuse, demands that put you in danger, kidnappings or false imprisonment, murder. 

You won't know how dangerous they are. It depends on their personal make-up and how distracted they are with their new source of narcissistic supply. It also depends upon whether they get similar narcissistic supply that they used to get from you. And it depends on how enraged they become over time about the contact or lack of contact you give them (a warning: they usually aren't happy with either so it is usually a no-win situation).

When they are "supply deficient", when their grandiosity is going through incredible challenges, when they are being called upon to deal with any kind of shame-related or illegal activities that they perpetrated, when they have expressed violent behavior in the past (with peers, or children, or animals), they can become dangerous. If you don't know enough about the violence or illegal activities they perpetrated in their past, the advice is to usually plan an exit, to stay away from them and keep law enforcement in the loop by keeping a record of aggressive texts, e-mails, conversations and actions. Talk to a domestic violence counselor and to police if you think you may be in danger.

Which is to say that their entitlement to initiate punishments and afterwards to receive apologies, attention, for you to be obedient towards them and their wishes, to put up with their abuse can become quite harmful and happen in ways you do not expect.

But ... while they seem fine without you, and even try to promote a separation, there can be a double bind: they usually hate to be ignored. According to the Healthline article, What Is Narcissistic Rage, and What’s the Best Way to Deal with It?

Narcissistic rage is an outburst of intense anger or silence that can happen to someone with narcissistic personality disorder ...

... We all desire attention and admiration from the people around us.

But people with NPD may react with narcissistic rage when they aren’t given the attention that they feel they deserve.

This rage may take the form of screaming and yelling. Selective silence and passive-aggressive avoidance can also happen with narcissistic rage.

Most episodes of narcissistic rage exist on a behavior continuum. On one end, a person may be aloof and withdrawn. Their goal may be to hurt another person by being absent.

The next article I'll present to you basically says the same thing with the caveat that it's a no-win situation for you if you ignore them (when they go silent and you accept the silence between you) or when you engage with them (which is likely to bring out their overt rage and the demand that you give into them): What Happens When You Ignore a Narcissist? According to 8 Experts by the editors of Up Journey: 

How will a narcissist react to being ignored:
If you ignore a narcissist and deny them their source, they may become enraged and try even harder for your attention – especially in ways that can be toxic or abusive. Ignoring a narcissist will enrage them because of their fragile egos. They’ll feel humiliated and lash out against you to protect themselves.

So for all intents and purposes, narcissists who hurt you by rejection and moving on to have a relationship with someone else, who forget about you or don't bother with you any more are a blessing compared to narcissists who become continually enraged that they didn't get what they wanted or expected to get from you (who are more likely to become dangerous). By the time you are discarded and they have moved on, perhaps you are exhausted from trying to please the impossible-to-please narcissist anyway. It certainly won't seem like a blessing at the time, but it can certainly be one later on as you realize that they were only in the relationship with you to attain more and more power, control and domination over you, and basically run your life.

However, if you are involved with a narcissist who is continually becoming enraged (or conversely hoovering and stalking you) over being ignored, what do most domestic violence counselors suggest that you do? 

Most domestic violence counselors will be making suggestions that will keep you safe. A good domestic violence counselor will always make that their first priority. So the general advice is to accept the silent treatment, move on with your life, and if they become enraged to the point where they "punish you" for not giving into them (giving them what they want), these counselors tend to advise getting law enforcement involved. Stalking, harassment (including unwanted communications from them), threats, stealing, slander (smear campaigns), restraining you, financial abuse, false imprisonment, attempted murder, attempted violence and physical abuse are all illegal. Eventually all states in the United States are likely to have coercive control laws to add to this list too. You have rights to peace, boundaries and safety and to not be controlled and manipulated by someone else. Note: people who are controlling in a close personal relationship usually have narcissistic traits. I encourage you to look at the other traits they tend to exhibit (some of them are listed on the right side of this blog) to make a determination if that is who you are dealing with.

A lot of blogs having to do with narcissistic abuse (like the one I found here that is a great blog in terms of what happens when narcissists try to dismantle your reputation and life, but not a good one in terms of keeping safe). These kinds of articles will tell you to keep ignoring the narcissist as he or she ramps up the attacks via smear campaigns, however ignoring them also means they are ramping it up without resistance - quite abusive and dangerous. Abuse always escalates, and most of the time it continues to escalate whether you are talking to them or not. Smear campaigns are just abuse-by-proxy. So resorting to a strategy where you are just ignoring them and their aggressive behavior (or their passive aggressive behavior) and the problems and attacks they are perpetrating in your life are often not a great idea. Always remember that ignoring them (even if they are the ones who originally initiated a silent treatment or discard) can mean that their narcissistic rage is deepening into an obsession, to the point where they have to do something to you to get relief from the rage.

They are often thinking ahead on how to do destruction to you or your life, so you have to think ahead too on how to handle it. Being proactive in terms of reporting is a great way to achieve a record, and to get legal help when you need it. There are many other things to do, and for that a domestic violence counselor should be sought. 

Be aware, however, that victims tend to downplay the abuse and violence they are receiving. "It's not that bad", "He (or she) loves me", "He has a hard day at work, so I give him a little leeway", "She has to take care of all of our kids and I understand why she goes off the deep end sometimes", "I can put up with it", "He (or she) wouldn't be doing this if I had apologized more" and so on. Under-reacting happens because you are overwhelmed (and cognitively in a fight or flight mode), so it's natural to diminish abuse (but it is also dangerous).

Most of the people I know who are continually exposed to narcissistic abuse (including abuse-by-proxy) eventually feel they have to move, go no contact, contact a lawyer, get police involved, to get some sort of relief and legal protection to totally avoid the narcissist and the destruction they are trying to wield. However, moving is not always your preference, or do-able. But sometimes moving and going "no contact" is the best strategy with the present laws and types of protections we have in the United States (where there are too many loopholes in the laws and not a consistent form of training when it comes to police enforcement and protection).

As far as entitlement goes, abusers in general feel entitled to abuse you. They will make all kinds of excuses for why they have a right to abuse and to be emotionally dysregulated (i.e. rage off the charts). The excuses run the gamut:
- "I was abused too as a kid. It was all I ever knew" - while it may be true, they have an obligation to clean up their act.
- "I fed you and took care of you! I was a much better parent than my parent!" - it may be true, but they have an obligation to seek help to stop abusing you. 
- "It's just the way I am! I fly off the handle! If you don't like it, leave!" - good advice. Leave.
- "I'm sorry you're upset. I have a right to rage if I want to. I'm not obligated to be 'Mr. Smooth Emotions' around you." - this shows lack of empathy for what their rage is doing to you (one of the definitive characteristics of narcissism is lack of empathy). While technically rage isn't against the law, it is a form of intimidation that tends to get worse over time. Raging at you a lot is a power and control move: they count on their rage intimidating you enough where you will give in to what they want. It should be a deal-breaker in terms of trying to maintain a healthy relationship.
- "I'm sorry I insulted you so much, but you brought it upon yourself" - very typical phrase among abusers, and a sign of blame-shifting.
- "If you had vacuumed the room perfectly, I wouldn't have gone off on you like that.", "If you had taken all of the dishes out of the dishwasher when I told you to do it, I wouldn't have smashed up the kitchen" - perfectionism in an adult-to-adult relationship is a common expectation among abusers, and they use it as an excuse to abuse. Notice how imperfect they are and stop trying to reach their absurd standards of perfection ( I suggest the movie "Sleeping with the Enemy" as that movie demonstrates the absurd levels of perfection that can be expected over time). 
- "Stop crying, or I'll strangle your scrawny little neck!" - they feel entitled to tell you when you get to express emotions. Most narcissists do not have empathy when you cry, and they find it irritating. Plus they get enraged when other people cry over how they are treated by them. It puts the abuser in a shame-rage spiral (when narcissists feel ashamed, unlike the rest of us, they rage - they also do not feel you have a right to shame them, which is another reason they rage). Also, believe them when they make threats of strangulation. They definitely feel entitled to threaten, abuse and rage when they are feeling ashamed by anything, including your crying.
     However, just to put this in perspective, look at how much they shame you and others - probably a lot. Shaming is a form of abuse. Don't take any of this behavior personally and don't put up with their hypocrisies. 
 
Some of the other common entitlements they expect:
- they often feel entitled to tell you what you think and what you feel and will often resist being corrected by you.
- they feel entitled to break your self esteem to teach you that they are more superior than you are, and that you should always be be their student.
- they feel entitled to teach you "behavior lessons" (i.e. to treat you like a child who needs to learn lessons from them on how to behave in ways that will make them happy and where they can feel emotionally regulated enough not to go into a rage)
- they feel entitled to shame you continually (to wreck your self esteem so that they can be in charge of what you do and what you say) 
- they feel entitled to meddle in your career or job. Some of them don't want you to work at all, especially if they are jealous (boss, co-workers, people you have hired, the type of work you do, etc)
- they feel entitled to pit your spouse, siblings, children, grandparents, nieces and nephews, friends, co-workers, and boss against you. 
- they feel entitled to treat their children like little slaves
- they feel entitled to break promises any time they feel like it
- they feel entitled to ignore your feelings

Need I go on? Narcissists can feel entitled to get everything they want, whether they hurt other people or not. The higher they are on the spectrum, the more entitled they will be.

WHY ARE NARCISSISTS SO REBELLIOUS?

One of the telling signs of a narcissist is road rage, going way past the speed limit, passing on the solid line, not letting you merge with traffic, hitting your car with their car and telling you that it was "all your fault". 

If you are riding with them and you get into an argument in the car and you aren't responding the way they want you to, they can threaten to drop you off in the middle of nowhere and make you walk. 

Some of the other things I have noticed personally:

* swimming in reservoirs (for drinking water) where there are clear signs that say things like "no swimming and no boating"
* on the Long Island ferry there are clear signs everywhere that cars should not be started until the boat docks and comes to a complete stop. But invariably the "entitled people" start their cars up anyway, sometimes way before they see land (to keep the heater on, to listen to music - gassing out the people in the car behind them). 
* during the mask ordinance, a lot of the people who didn't wear masks felt that they had special immune systems, or special medications, that they could dodge the virus while watching the rest of their countrymen die or get sick (because, they reasoned, the average citizens had "inferior immunity", and lack of knowledge about medical or herbal "cures") 
* break laws about nude swimming
* stealing
* if they are "financially challenged", and a car is unlocked with a wallet in the front seat, they might feel entitled to take it
* having affairs despite their marriage vows to stay faithful
* abandoning their children, and because they don't want to be embarrassed by that fact, they tell others that their children abandoned them instead
* they are caught cheating and to not be embarrassed it, they tell the person who caught them that their spouse is a domestic violence offender and that their new lover is saving them
* they indulge in domestic violence and child abuse even though it is illegal
* false imprisonment even though it is illegal
* trespassing even though it is illegal
* stalking, even though it is illegal
* threats to hurt their spouse or grown children if you don't do what they demand (illegal in some states in the USA under new coercive control laws, completely illegal in the United Kingdom)
* teaching a child how to shoot a pistol even though it is illegal
* killing wild animals out of season, harvesting more wild animals that is over the legal limit
* torturing wild animals in ways that are illegal
* setting traps where there are "no hunting, fishing or trapping" signs
* hunting on private property where there are "no hunting, fishing or trapping" signs, hunting within 100 yards of someone's house (both illegal) 
* consumption and trafficking of illegal substances
* trafficking children or other human beings
* lie about how much alcohol and drugs they consume
* lie about cheating
* lie about being victimized when they are the victimizers
* then there is Jeffrey Epstein who felt entitled to have sex with a lot of underage girls, breaking the law blatantly, because he was wealthy, had co-conspirators, manipulated prosecutors into giving him "sweetheart deals" and had "dirt" on other wealthy people - he had all of the criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder plus some of the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder and communal narcissism.   
* and then there are a lot of narcissists who don't want to care a shred about how you feel and what you've endured, and they also feel entitled to refuse to hear you out, but when you put up boundaries and refuse to talk to them about certain subjects, and want "out" of the relationship, they find it maddening and cruel 

Most of these incidences show rebellion. In other words, they feel entitled to act in these ways, but do not want others in their life to act like this towards them.

This is all so confusing when it comes to children: "Am I supposed to do what you do, or am I supposed to only listen to what you want me to do? And by the way, why do you get to do what you don't want me to do?" That's where the cognitive dissonance starts: wrong is right somehow, and right is somehow wrong. If you are a good kid and tell the truth, you are somehow bad, and if you lie a lot (especially for them) you are good. That's just a small example of the thousands of mixed up messages kids get. And to make it all worse, one kid from the same family practically gets away with murder, while another kid can't even get away with a facial expression the narcissist doesn't like without getting abused over it. That is because narcissistic parents put their children in roles. And to randomize this set of circumstances, some narcissists change the roles on their children so that no child gets comfortable with consistent treatment!

One of the greatest hypocrisies that most people notice early on in a relationship with a narcissist is that they expect complete compliance, conventional adherence, loyalty, and even hate any signs of rebelliousness from their victims, but are often over-the-top rebellious themselves, refusing to live by the standards they set for others.

They feel free to thumb their noses at societal norms, to be disloyal, to lie and over-inflate what they do and who they are, even break laws, and to top it all off, too cowardly to confess when they've broken laws. But others? They want complete confessions and reparations, especially if abuses, mixed messages and crimes committed against them. They have expectations of others that they would never live up to themselves. 

If they are so rebellious, why can't they give you a break when you are just a tad rebellious? Do they only give themselves a break to act out, and excuse themselves for acting out, and not you? 

The answer to this is "yes". 

And it is why it is so hard to respect them, or even listen to their defenses, lectures, insistences of compliance, and attacks on our character. We get fed up with their double standards and their "Do as I say and not as I do" stances and excuses. 

It's all about how they feel entitled to "special treatment", the typical definition found in just about every major medical description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Entitlement, rebelliousness, "it's okay for me to act like this, but not okay for you" attitudes, and all of the glaring and myriad hypocrisies around their entitlements are too hard to live with day in and out, for anyone ... They are also some of the first signs that we see when we have gotten to know narcissists a little for who they really are. We come to understand that entitlement explains why they break promises without any kind of feeling or introspection, but feel that others should not only keep their promises to the narcissist, but do everything the narcissist wants. What kind of fantasy world do they live in?

A big one.

Their entitlement and hypocritical rebellions are also one of the biggest contributors to why they are incapable of hanging on to deep authentic close personal relationships. They can't be close to people because they have a compulsion to control them in ways they can't be controlled = bad outcome for relationships of longevity. 

"Introduction to Entitlement"
by Dr. Ramani Durvasula:
(my note: she makes the case that entitlement is deeply connected to their lack of empathy):


"Understanding the narcissist's entitlement (30 DAYS OF NARCISSISM) - Dr. Ramani Durvasula"


"When narcissists use their performance/accomplishments to justify their entitlement"
by Dr. Ramani Durvasula:


"Your Disobedience Toward A Narcissist's Control"
by psychologist Dr. Les Carter
for Surviving Narcissism


"7 Signs Of A Narcissist's Entitlement"
by psychologist, Dr. Les Carter:



also from Dr. Phil McGraw that I thought was really to the point
(he makes the case of why narcissists should not be in therapy):
What Is Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

FURTHER READING

Narcissism and Entitlement: "Do I Have to Stand in Line?" (When living large means something different) - by Karyl McBride Ph.D. for Psychology Today

Covert Narcissist: Signs, Causes, and How to Respond - by Jodi Clarke, MA, LPC/MHSP, Medically reviewed by David Susman, PhD for Very Well Mind

Revisiting the Psychology of Narcissistic Entitlement (Not all narcissists are created equally when it comes to entitlement). - by Susan Krauss Whitbourne Ph.D. for Psychology Today

Endlessly Entitled Narcissists: What to Look For - by Linda Sapadin, Ph.D for Psych Central

Do Narcissists Ever Grow Up? (New research investigates continuity and change in narcissism from young adulthood to midlife) - by Scott Barry Kaufman for Scientific American 

What Is Narcissistic Entitlement And What To Do About It - by Melanie Tania Evans, popular You Tuber and writer on narcissism

How to Think Like a Narcissist and Why They Hurt People (Understanding a narcissist's mind shields and empowers you to react effectively.) - by Darlene Lancer, JD, LMFT for Psychology Today

The Psychology Behind Sense Of Entitlement - by Robert Porter for Better Help

Tell Me All I Need to Know About Narcissistic Personality Disorder - by Christina Gregory, PhD
and Krista Soriano, medically reviewed by Jean Kim, MD for Psycom

Narcissistic Entitlement - by Roy F. Baumeister & Kathleen D. Vohs for Sage Knowledge

How to Deal With a Narcissistic Mother
- by Dr. Silvina Galperin, C. Psych. for CBT Psychology for Personal Development

The Narcissistic Mother or Father: Why they make their children suffer - by Jay Reid for Jay Reid Psychotherapy

Narcissistic Parents Are Literally Incapable Of Loving Their Children - by Joanna McClanahan for the Scary Mommy website 

5 Damaging Lies We Learn From Narcissistic Parents - by Shahida Arabi, Contributor, #1 Amazon Bestselling Author and Founder of Self-Care Haven for the Huffington Post

Friday, April 17, 2015

financial abuse, money and bullying, in close personal relationships

name of art: "Financial Abuse"
image is © Lise Winne
india ink and graphics, 2015
(for questions regarding use of images or to contract an image for your next article
contact: LilacGroveGraphics (att) yahoo.com)

Financial abuse occurs in 98 percent of all abusive relationships. Money is used as a weapon to punish and control victims.

Female victims who leave their abusers most often suffer economically. The costs of court, finding a safe place to live, protection and therapy put a strain on women financially. Abusers sometimes try to sabotage women's jobs and careers too.  

In my own life, I have had two people who used money as a weapon. I was financially dependent on both of them (at different times). Both of them used the withdrawal of money as a form of punishment at the absolute lowest point of my life (a predator-to-prey kind of abuse). Not only that, but both times, I was discarded abruptly in the most hurtful and traumatic way. 

So I am using my own experiences as well as research to explain why you should never be financially dependent on someone who shows any (and I mean ANY) signs of verbal, emotional, psychological, financial, sexual or physical abuse. A link to a list of abuses is HERE.

And, by the way, the predator-to-prey kind of abuse is primarily practiced by people who are cold-hearted: narcissists, sociopaths and addicts/alcoholics with narcissistic tendencies. For further information, go HERE.

A normal person with normal amounts of empathy (i.e. not abusive) who doesn't want you to be financially dependent on them, usually makes an announcement. That announcement might be, "I need you to be financially independent of my money, therefore, I will withdraw money incrementally, by the month, until you can get back on your feet again." This is how you might approach a grown child who has fallen on hard times, or who has graduated from college, for instance. It is a way of saying, "You need to be financially independent of me, to do it through your own work, but if you fall on hard times, I'll try to be there for you, as long as you don't make a habit of it." This is good parenting anyway; it is respecting the adult in the grown child. It shows that you respect the autonomy of the grown child too.

And yet, a normal person with normal amounts of empathy is even capable of withdrawing money abruptly, especially if they have no more money to give. But where it becomes abusive is if it comes as a punishment (i.e. to purposely hurt) or with a punishment (i.e. as part of a way to purposely hurt), or as a way to control, or in a way that uses it as a weapon. 

Punishments that go with the swift withdrawal of money can be part of the silent treatment, insults, rejection, being ostracized, all as a tactic to keep you dependent and under their control. You aren't doing something for them, or you said something they didn't like that they took offense to, or because they are having a temper tantrum, anything that doesn't respect your autonomy is used as an excuse to hurt you and withdraw money. That is when it gets into the realm of abuse.

Control is another form of abuse with money. The most common form of control with money is a husband who rewards his wife for doing what he wants her to do, and withdrawing money from her if she is not doing as he wants. It can even extend into the welfare of their common children. This keeps her in a tentative position. She is either begging him for money, or grateful for having received money, instead of the money being common property with mutual respect for each other. She is put on an allowance. At the very least, she is walking on eggshells around the issue of money. This kind of relationship quickly becomes fear-based where the wife tiptoes around her husband's alternating rage and reasonableness, sanctions and magnanimity, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. This kind of relationship is always written into the typical wheel of abuse that psychologists use to explain victimization. 

But, financial abuse can happen in any close relationship in the family.  

Personality disordered abusers often use the lure/seduction of money to get you dependent on them. Their belief system is that if their targets are financially dependent, it will give the abuser total control over his victim and endless avenues to abuse. 

In my own life, the first abuser said, "You don't need to work. I make plenty of money to support us both. You just need to take care of things around our home." This person left me long lists every day, chores that I was supposed to fulfill. 

This can be a typical domestic partnership or marriage set up. 

But where it went terribly wrong for me is when I discovered that this wasn't a secure position for me at all, and that I would probably be left high and dry. My main purpose in life changed: I had to make money and to be independent. This meant giving up on this person's priorities: our common home and his long lists. He tried to forcefully put me back in a dependent role again by sabotaging the starter in my car, and when my car no longer worked, trying to keep me from having another car. He made scenes at my place of employment and at the school I was attending. He tried to keep me from leaving to go to my classes or job. He used affairs with other women to tell me that if I only did what he wanted, he would stop cheating on me. He lectured and badgered me nearly every evening about how I was supposed to only be thinking of fulfilling his needs, using guilt over what he had previously done for me, using the ungrateful phrase, a common phrase among all abusers. He used any tactic to get total compliance, and escalated abuse when I dared to show independence. 

The second abuser in my life used a similar tactic. This person B constantly told me "You don't need to be successful! You just need to do ---" all the while shaking my forearm with digging fingernails and an insistent look. I saw terror on B's face a couple of times at the prospect that I might be a major success in my field. They would advise me in such a way that would insure (to them) that I would not be successful. There were many conversations about incredible opportunities that had come my way, where person B would tell me all the ways it was dangerous or not worthwhile, where it might be unfulfilling. Person B was a total Debbie Downer. When I would resist and counter back, Person B would say, "Well, you know, you never have to worry about money. You don't really need the success. You don't really need opportunities." 

The thing is, the money wasn't even close enough to pay the bills. It was money quite a bit below the poverty line. Most of us know that even the poverty line is much lower than it should be. Was it enough to warrant being unsuccessful, sitting on my laurels and eating bon-bons all day? Not even a little. Talking about my career with B was like walking on eggshells, so I tried to avoid the subject as much as possible or divert it to some of the projects I was working on that wouldn't be contrived as striving. Since I am an artist, I would steer the conversation towards design and composition instead. I avoided B's extremely long winded doomer advice (hours long, by the way, and sometimes over several days as well) as though I should look at my career as an insurmountable plague of stone walls.

By the way, these are all red flags. Control is absolutely what this is about.

In my case, the control was about trying to make me poor and impoverished enough so that I would be begging for money (and willing to do anything for either of these abusers) if the bottom fell out of my life. It was designed to keep me from being successful, autonomous and independent.

However, at the worst time in my life with too many tragedies to deal with, this is when person B decided to use a flimsy excuse to punish and abuse, and this included a swift withdrawal of money. Was I surprised? A little, but all the signs were there: trying to keep me financially dependent, discouraging success, trying to create an imbalance of power, wanting me to beg for money at the lowest point in my life, wanting me to be complacent so that I would be dependent.  

I have never known abusers to give a lot of money. Only minimal amounts of money are given so that abusers feel in control at all times. They want their victims to suffer if they suddenly withdraw money from them. Financial abuse is often the first step to other abuses. It is designed to get the victim under control again. When financial abuse happens, guilt trips about money are used later on, i.e. "After all I have done for you, and you won't allow me to abuse you! So ungrateful!"  Very few victims find that abuse is a good exchange for money, especially when it becomes obvious that the abuse is escalating.  

By the way, once you are free from abuse, financial abusers also love to show you that they are giving their money to your arch enemies, and living extravagantly, so brace yourself for this.

A word of advice. If you are dealing with an abuser who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder who has discarded you, beware of how the information of your successes and achievements reach them. While it may make you feel great to rub their noses in your great fortune and success (which you achieved without them), if they are in punishing mode they try everything they can to ruin it for you. This includes spreading rumors to your co-workers and boss, trying to seduce you back into their company again (to trip you up again), stalking you, apologies which aren't sincere, indeed anything that they can think of to damage you. Most victims are surprised at how far their perpetrators go to destroy their careers and reputations. Having read many forums on this subject, it is clear that NPDs leave you alone if they think you are leading a life of poverty, full of tragedies and unfulfilled dreams. Many victims pretend that they are living the way their perpetrators wish for them, for safety reasons (having found out the hard way). It is called the grey rock method. 

If you are in the public spotlight, this will be very difficult. My condolences go out to you.

Many victims of abuse use pseudonyms. You might consider this if you are emotionally abused too (since emotional abuse is often a precursor to other types of abuse, including physical abuse).

The following is a story I always remember when I  think of abuse and money (this is a true story, by the way; only the names have been changed to protect the innocent):

A woman, Carrie, in her mid-sixties, fell on hard times. Her mother, Anne, who was in her eighties, told her that she could come back home to live. The exchange for being able to live at home, was that Carrie would have to do the grocery shopping, make the meals, take her mother to doctors' appointments, do the household chores, keep the lawn and garden in shape, indeed, wait on her mother hand and foot. Carrie agreed to it.
Anne gave Carrie complete use of the car, the house, and she gave Carrie enough money to be able to provide for both of their needs. Anne also made Carrie the sole inheritor of Anne's estate, especially since Carrie was an only child.
Everything went well for five years for mother and daughter, until Carrie was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, a rare form where she would have to be treated at a facility far away. She put Anne, her mother, in an assisted living home and told her that she would retrieve her once she was done with her cancer treatments.
Anne did not want to be in the facility. Anne was furious with Carrie that she was breaking the deal between them. Carrie expected her mother to understand the extenuating circumstances and again told her mother it was temporary and to "hold on tight."
Carrie arranged for someone to look after the house and to look in on her mother.
As Carrie was preparing to leave, Anne arranged to block Carrie from all of the finances, took the car keys from her, took Carrie out of the will, and barred her from the house they had shared.
Carrie was left without a home, without money, without the wherewithal to pursue cancer treatments. 
It is obvious that Anne had nothing to gain from this. Without cancer treatments, Carrie cannot live to take care of her mother.

So now Carrie is in a homeless shelter. Her mother is still in a facility.

This is what Narcissistic Personality Disorder looks and acts like. Anne's whole agenda is about herself only, and punishing her daughter, with no empathy, no common sense or rationale behind the decision.

It is always a good story to remember!

Two very good videos on the subject:

"Narcissists and Financial Abuse, Part 1"
by Psychologist Les Carter and Therapist Shannon Thomas:

"Narcissists and Financial Abuse, Part 2"
by Psychologist Les Carter and Therapist Shannon Thomas:




Sunday, September 21, 2014

ostracism and being the scapegoat in the alcoholic family

name of art: "Scapegoat Healing"
(meant as healing art for scapegoat victims)
© Lise Winne
for sale as a fine art archival print HERE

note: a much more thorough post about scapegoating in both alcoholic and narcissistic families is on my main blog HERE. 
What scapegoating sounds like is on the Walking on Eggshells post HERE (towards the end of the post #3).

My experiences in various Alanon and ACOA meetings is that they are full of scapegoats and ostracized family members. In one I went to, between a third and a half of the attendees either had no relationship with their family members or barely any contact with family members (aka very strained, superficial relationships). 

It was shocking for me to learn this! And also upsetting and baffling.

In most of the Alanon meetings I have attended, the people in them are gentle, quiet, reasonable, responsible, respectful souls. The attendees that show up every week for years and years are community leaders, teachers, therapists, yoga instructors and nurses with altruistic motives, people who have worked very hard on themselves to do the right thing, to go way out of their way to help others without expecting anything in return. In short, they seem like the most empathetic members of society. When I think of the people in these groups, I think of the doting nurses in hospitals who allay your fears, and make sure you are comfortable as you transition through a scary and emotional time. Some even seem downright saintly. And these are the hated black sheep of their families? I was aghast! How did it end up this way?

Scapegoating (in terms of the family) means being bullied by the entire family. The family picks on one of its members, blames that person for everything that goes wrong in the family, desperately goes on fault finding missions to explain away abuse, and (mis)interprets the victims feelings in an ugly way to further convict and bully (the explanation comes from my post on invalidation and perspecticide).

So, as it turns out, the most bullied members of society are in the helping professions: nurses and school teachers as evidenced by this NPR broadcast here.

The scapegoating of these kinds of members of society actually makes sense when you research why. Alcohol destroys the part of the brain that is in control of empathy (NBC article here). The disorder associated with a lack of empathy is Narcissistic Personality Disorder (the other Cluster B disorders may be evident as well -- alcoholism mimicing these disorders has been well documented in psychiatric literature). Borderlines, Narcissists and the Anti Personality Disordered (all Cluster B) constantly indulge in situations where all blame for life events and relationships that go wrong are heaped onto someone outside of himself, usually a scapegoat. For the sake of convenience, I will use the term "narcissist" to refer to the Cluster B personality disorders.

The documentation for narcissists who pick a child to be his or her favorite (usually labeled a golden child who can do no wrong), and another child to be a scapegoat (who is the least favored and can do no right) is called splitting, and well established in psychiatric literature also. The golden child is someone who is chosen by the narcissist from the group of family members, someone who has similar values and traits to the narcissist parent (so naturally this favored child would resemble the narcissist the most: i.e. a child who most exhibits a lack of empathy, feels entitled and has abusive tendencies ... and with further nurturing of these qualities, the narcissist parent, in effect, creates another narcissist who bullies his other siblings). The Scapegoat role is assigned to the child who has the least amount of traits of the narcissistic parent (usually a sensitive empath). Since alcoholic brain damage mimics narcissism, the narcissist chooses a scapegoat in the family who is the most sensitive and empathetic and heaps all blame for what has gone wrong on this member (while convincing other family members who share similar bullying characteristics to help in ganging up on the scapegoat). And who are the most empathetic members of society? Nurses, school teachers, yoga instructors, home health aides and the like. 

As this Psych Central article by Erika Krull, MSED, LMHP states, it is also the act of setting up boundaries and telling the truth which leads to a situation where one becomes the scapegoat:

Going against the grain in an alcoholic family could make someone a hot target. If one person tries to speak the truth about an alcoholic and put up boundaries, that person quickly can become the black sheep. Family members often will air out the truth-teller’s dirty laundry; whatever positive standing they might have within the family could be knocked down. Rumors and negativity may even spread beyond the family group. If that’s the price for helping an alcoholic family member, why would anyone do it? It takes courage to stand up to an entire family, and many people aren't sure they have it.

And indeed, the scapegoat is usually the truth-teller, the family member who is the healthiest emotionally, the member who wants a more functional relationship based on honesty rather than denials, lies and sycophantic behaviors, the one who can no longer accept abuse and speaks out about it, the one who feels empathy for other abused members, is the one who is unconsciously chosen to be the scapegoat by the other family members.

In this blog post by licensed therapist, Kellen (from Kellevision), a family drops off their problem child at the therapist's office to be fixed. It turns out the child is the family scapegoat and is acting out. The acting out is actually deemed to be a normal response to the domestic violence, physical abuse, blaming and shaming going on in the family. So in order to fix the child, the whole family needs to be in counseling:

The entire family ostracizes her because of her "anger problems". Her only problem is that she is clearly carrying the anger for all the other children at the situations and conditions of violence and chaos they have experienced. Like a typical scapegoat she is the truth teller, complaining vociferously about her mother's boyfriends and the problems they create for her and her siblings. She confronts Mom. She says what the other children stay quiet about. This allows the other children to sit and smile and look like angels by comparison. She grabs her sword and shield and does battle against the things that are wrong in her family. She openly defies her mother and the two of them are locked in a power struggle ...

Everyone has their role. But you can't see this unless you have the entire family in the room together interacting with and reacting to each other.

If this family can be educated about the parts everyone is playing and change those roles there is hope that the "problem child" won't have to keep acting out the dysfunction of the system. ... Fixing the dysfunction of the system fixes the "behavior problems" of the child.

A lot of parents are extremely resistant and sensitive to being labeled as the problem by a clinician. Some will absolutely refuse to participate in the process at all and refuse to consider any suggestion that anyone but the child has a problem ...

If I can create a safe environment with strong boundaries and clear rules which limit blaming that is the ideal. I also work very hard to explain the concept of family systems theory and be very balanced in my listening and feedback.
 -- Kellen

Kellen also has a post about what the scapegoat role is really about here.

In this article from Sober Recovery by Lynne Namka, Ed.D, scapegoating goes beyond the family and becomes a societal ill: 

Scapegoating is a serious family dysfunctional problem with one member of the family or a social group being blamed for small things, picked on and constantly put down. In scapegoating, one of the authority figures has made a decision that somebody in the family has to be the bad guy. The mother or father makes one child bad and then looks for things (sometimes real, but most often imagined) that are wrong ...

It seems as if we humans as a species seem to need someone to vent our anger on and make wrong. Scapegoating is a projection defense. It is the ego saying "If I can put the blame on you, I don't have to recognize and take responsibility for the negative qualities in myself. What I can't stand about myself, I really hate in you and have to attack you for it in order to deny that I have the same quality." 

Scapegoating is a huge social problem contributing to the hate that exists in the world. There is scapegoating of whole groups of people happening when there is prejudice or stereotyping. Unfortunately, in a larger sense, some Jewish people or other ethnic groups and minorities have been scapegoated by the less conscious members of their own culture.

Elaine Dove, a scapegoat-turned-therapist recognized that her role was the typical result of what happens "in families affected by alcoholism and/or narcissistic parenting..." She realized her role was the result of a mother who would deny anything bad about herself and a family who not only went along with it, but who was unwilling to own their contributions to the abuse and dysfunction. In order to keep the round of denials and abusive behaviors going without a hitch, they needed the scapegoat child to be the dumping ground. She got sick of being the scapegoat, took herself out of the family, disappeared, and when she went back temporarily for a family function, noticed that in her absence, a new scapegoat had taken her place (there can't be a chasm in this system if denial is going to work). She realized then that her family needed her more than she needed them, in order to keep the denials going. It was her way of healing from the traumatic experiences of being the scapegoat.

She is not the only one. In fact, there have been a lot of articles written about replacement scapegoats.

And like Elaine, scapegoats do, in fact, leave their families ... often, and sometimes forever. ACOA, Alanon and Co-dependents Anonymous are full of people who were or are their family's scapegoats. Once the scapegoat leaves their family, the other family member that is chosen to fill the role/void is, in fact, next up in line in terms of sensitivity. In this article by licensed therapist, Kellen, an intellectual family chooses an "emotional child" to fill the void:

The official Scapegoat has resigned from his position and refused to play the part any longer. So the family is desperately (though unconsciously) seeking someone else to fill the position. It seems to be moving toward the younger sister. This family values intellect and the younger sister is rather emotional. She has been labeled a "drama queen" by the family (notice the negative labeling which precedes the scapegoating).

There's just one problem. Though she may be a drama queen (and she can be a bit), she actually has a very serious and very real situation going on right now. A situation which would typically require the family to band together to support her. But it appears that the family is using the "drama queen" designation to deny the validity of her problem and, in doing so, eliminate their responsibility to support her. This tactic also denounces her emotional reaction to the problem as merely being "drama". By defining painful emotions as "drama" other family members can avoid feeling them. They avoid having to listen to her experiences and her pain. And they put her down for experiencing them. 
-- Kellen

In this article on living with addiction, Tian Dayton, MA, PhD, TEP says of the dysfunctional family:

... family members seamlessly slip into patterns of relating that become increasingly more dysfunctional. The children are often left to fend for themselves and anyone bold enough to confront the obvious disease may be branded as a family traitor ...

... Alcoholic families may become characterized by a kind of emotional and psychological constriction, where family members do not feel free to express their authentic selves for fear of triggering disaster; their genuine feelings are often hidden under strategies for keeping safe, like pleasing or withdrawing. The family becomes organized around trying to manage the unmanageable disease of addiction. They may yell, withdraw, cajole, harangue, criticize, understand, get fed up; you name it. They become remarkably inventive in trying everything they can come up with to contain the problem and keep the family from blowing up. The alarm bells in this system are constantly on a low hum, causing everyone to feel hyper vigilant, ready to run for emotional (or physical) shelter or to erect their defenses at the first sign of trouble ...

... Without a rigorous program of treatment and recovery for all concerned, the dysfunctional personality styles and relationships developed in the addicted family environment will tend to recreate themselves over and over again. Sobriety needs to happen on all levels and in all family members, emotionally, psychologically and physically ...

Emotional, physical and psychological abuse is unfortunately all too often present in families that contain addiction and trauma. Abuse is part of the impulsivity that characterizes families where feelings are acted out rather than talked out. The other side of abuse is victimization...


In this blog, the scapegoat decides to stop speaking the truth or getting involved in family disputes, and decides that if the truth isn't being spoken by her, then other family members might come forward and speak the truth. In other words, the scapegoat is a kind of shield or champion for the oppressive situation where one member does all of the work of confronting and trying to make the family better and whole again, but also takes all of the blame and branded as a troublemaker by most of the other members. The blogger suggests it might be helpful to other people who have been saddled with the scapegoat role to remove themselves and be silent. However, make sure you read the comments below the blog. In situations of abuse, violence and bullying, this may simply be impossible. In my own experience in witnessing scapegoats in Alanon and ACOA, the abuse is too severe, plus the scapegoat role stays with the individual forever, whether they are silent or not, whether they are in the family or not (ostracism simply replaces the role, someone else may take on the role in the absence of scapegoat #1, but as soon as the scapegoat #1 returns to the family again, the role returns, sometimes with a vengeance).

So much of the advice in Alanon and ACOA is to work on redefining yourself as a child of God (or what ever your higher power is), not as the emotionally beat up and blamed victim of your family. You are encouraged to be more than your sick family's definitions, not to take their barbs, insults and blaming tactics into your heart and mind and let it hurt you and fester there, and to move beyond your family's definition by reaching out to others who are healthier and appreciate you more. In a way, these groups are like fellowships where life-long friends and substitute family can be found. Staying in situations where you are bullied, degraded, abused, silenced about your pain, kept from your dreams and where there is a lot of hypocrisy, double standards and lying is not acceptable (which can all be part of the alcoholic family system: more information here and here and here).

Many ACOA and Alanon attendees wear their black sheep status with pride inside the walls of these groups. Some have lost their entire families and gone through incredible grief, thoughts about suicide at one time, wondered what they were living for, wondered what they were going to do without a family. But in the end, after many years, they wondered why they put up with so much deep pain for so long. The scapegoat role is a very, very painful role. It looks and sounds like bigotry and can even border on sounding like slavery. Who needs to be approved by bullies, scapegoaters, hypocrites, control freaks, liars and people who punish you when you speak the truth? Even if they are people you have known for a good portion of your life? You simply may have outgrown your need to be in situations where you are nothing more to these members of your family than what they want from you, or how they perceive you (which may always be negative and degrading, or at best, about weakening your autonomy and rights within the relationship in some way, including having your thoughts and feelings heard).

In my own life:

I look to an uncle to keep me on track when it comes to bullying situations. He had a supportive wife and a completely comfortable life where he could have been very self-indulgent. He risked it all in the first band of Freedom Riders, the ones who saw and experienced the most violence and terror. He continued with many other protests, including The Golden Rule. He was staunchly against an addicted, inebriated society in general, and felt that alcohol was not only poison, but could change morals and honor for the worse. Events at his house were always without alcohol. I doubt that he would have submitted to domination, docility and being a willing scapegoat or sycophant just to be part of a relationship where he wasn't respected. I often put him and his example in my mind (he and I were close).

And I also look to my father. He told me many, many times that he didn't want me to be docile for anyone, that he felt I had a greater purpose and a better spirit than to submit to domination, strong-arming, silencing and manipulations. Although he said it to me many, many times throughout my life, it was as though, on his deathbed, he handed me those instructions in spades.

If you want a better world, with integrity and honor in it, you have to live it first, and look to people who have it, and surround yourself with more people who have it. As Billy Graham said: "Courage is contagious. When a brave man takes a stand, the spines of others are stiffened."

A visual work I thought of that depicts walking away from people who scapegoat is the Eight of Cups in the Tarot. It depicts someone in pursuit of better ideals, who willingly leaves behind comfort to face a difficult terrain or road (and in a reading, that is exactly what is portended). According to the Biddy Tarot:

The Eight of Cups is a card of change and transition. The card evokes an immediate reaction of sadness and a sense of solitude. The young man in this card has turned his back on all he has accumulated or accomplished before. He disappears by night into a barren and difficult terrain with only a cloak on his back and a staff in hand ... This individual has chosen to forsake the familiar and the comfortable in the pursuit of higher goals.

Perhaps that is the path that most scapegoats come to take eventually. 

Friday, May 23, 2014

Are abusers hypocrites?

name of cartoon/illustration: King of Hypocrisy
image is ©2014 Lise Winne
(for information regarding licensing any images contact LilacGroveGraphics (att) yahoo.com)

Those who spend their time looking for the faults in others usually make no time to correct their own. -- Art Jonak

I have found in my own life that people who are hyper critical and judgmental of others, are hyper sensitive to any criticism of themselves, even if that other person unwittingly and unconsciously does so. 

This is an excellent article on how hypocrites operate.

I have found in my own life that people who chastise others for being selfish will show that they are more selfish than you could ever think to be.

I have found in my own life that people who cry foul for hurting their feelings, will hurt your feelings with impunity, disregard, abandon and then further chastise you (or try to convince you that you are crazy) for feeling hurt.

I haven't met an abuser yet who isn't a hypocrite. 

People who look in the mirror before they treat others with disdain or a verbal lashing or an emotionally abusive tactic can very rarely get to the point where they can go through with it. Funny about that!

Why? Many abusers have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. What are the signs? Here is a good explanation (and the overall blog to that link is a good resource too).

Thursday, January 2, 2014

abuse means never having to say you're sorry

name of artwork: Abuse Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry
© 2014 by Lise Winne
(for inquiries regarding licensing this image contact LilacGroveGraphics ((att)) yahoo.com)

Have you ever felt that "Dr. Jeckyl/ Mr. Hyde" is living within someone? Especially someone who is abusive? Have you ever wondered what abuse is and if you're really being abused (especially if you aren't being hit)?

I found this article by Tamara Star to explain it best. In it she says, "controlling behaviors, shaming, refusing to listen, talking over you, blaming, emotional abuse, yelling, lying, neglecting ... intimidation and psychological manipulation are all examples of abuse."

My relationship with Johnny (the impetus for starting this blog) was all about the above. I never got any kind of break from it, ever. You can read my particular story HERE (for the in-depth version). It was also about:

- walking on eggshells
- keeping quiet to keep the peace (because anything could set him off)
- not speaking my mind to keep the peace (again because anything could set him off)
- trying to repair arguments only to be talked over, intimidated, belittled, lectured and screamed at
- allowing his hypocrisy, taunting, lack of fairness and heartlessness to flourish without comment in our relationship because I accepted too easily that his morality and integrity were hopelessly lost 
- forgiving and justifying his bad behaviors which only made the behaviors worse in him
- feeling relieved when he finally screamed that he hated me because it meant that I didn't have to be invested in whether I meant anything to him and that I could quit trying to appease or fix our relationship (he said it when I finally confronted him about his drinking) 

His drinking intensified all of the above, of course, i.e. the more he drank the worse his behaviors got. Since he started drinking between 9:30 and 10:00 every morning, I never got any relief. His drinking also made him paranoid and see provocations and conspiracies where there weren't any. His irritability knew no bounds (nor did his venting over a singular insignificant occurrence for hours on end).

I never got to the point where I lost my self esteem or started to question my worth though. He tried very hard, it seemed to me, but perhaps I've lived too long and have already experienced unconditional love and approval from people I respect so as not to need his love, admiration or approvals. I could also endure long, extreme bouts of "the silent treatment" because I am used to keeping company with myself and my work. But, I could see how even I could lose my self esteem after awhile if I had to endure years of it. I was extremely lucky to finally be out of this situation with him. Not everyone can be so lucky, particularly children.

At Alanon we learn that dealing with alcoholics is too much to bear alone, without the support of others. In fact, it seems to me to be impossible. I can see that an alcoholic who is in a continual state of irritation and rage (common) and where communication is always abusive (can be common in alcoholics who want power and control over others) could totally break another human being, destroy them. So many newbies come to Alanon looking so totally ravaged and dejected as to look gravely ill. It's not uncommon to have a triple whammy of psychological symptoms all at once: severe PTSD, suicidal thoughts and depression. The stomach is the first place where illness seems to manifest.

Ever since I have been active in this cause I have noticed that most people cannot live with angry alcoholics. The non-alcoholic may feel committed for awhile, but at some point it becomes too much and they make a break for it. Sometimes the angry alcoholic turns into the dysfunctional drunk who can't work and whose liver is giving out. Then it's not so likely that the alcoholic will be abandoned, but that is only because they entered another phase of the disease quickly before the victim could plan to leave.

As for the blog/article I opened this post about?
I left a comment on it and Tamara Star responded! My comment and her response below:

Lise: One added difference and dimension if the person is an *abusive alcoholic* is that the alcoholic often sees provocations and conspiracies when there aren’t any. Such a bad combo in addition to all you have stated above. And so awful for the people around them!
Worth exploring?
Tamara: Hi Lisa,
It’s a lethal combo, especially when combined with someone that refuses to get help ie: AA
Hoping whomever it is involved in this situation is getting the support they need to either be strong and hold tight as the person goes through AA, or to find the strength to walk away.